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I'm in the process of startin an ork army and I'm looking for a bit of feedback before I start converting vehicles.

The outline at the moment is three open-topped, lightly armed battlewagons as the main thrust. These will have 2x 20 choppa boyz and 10 nobz + warboss + big mek KFF

Then, supporting that, 2x 6 bikers and four truckz with boyz for objective holding or counter-assault.

That seems like a good solid core (approx 2K points) and I can then start adding specialists (burna boyz, kommando and deffkoptas are probably top of that list and I may build some buggies).

Is the basic concept sound?
Should I give two of the truckz ard case to make them more effective objective sitters?
I'm thinking that weapons on an assaulting battlewagon are fairly pointless as they're only going to get to fire after the boyz are delivered in turn 2/3. So, the only weapons worth having are a couple of big shootas to protect against wep destroyed results?

I wouldn't waste the points on ard cases on the BWs. If the object is in cover, get in there and G2G. YOur main strength will be CC so give yourself as main PKs as possible. What is worth it on your nobs is big choppas and shoota-skorchas. They can all can fire from the BW with the skorcha and the template can start from the front of the BW not the crew compartment. If you tank shock at combat speed and end up in the middle of the unit if the unit gets out of the way then they can get the max effect from the skorcha from inside the vehicle.

Trukks can't be 'ard cased so I'll assume you meant the BattleWagons.

'Ard case limits how you disembark, which for an Ork is very bad, as CC is your thing, don't limit how they get into it. If an opponent has the ability to defeat an armor of 14, he's probably gonna do it multiple times a turn anyway.

KillKannons have their merit in the right circumstances (i.e. other horde armies)

I'd look into running Ghaz as your warboss. He's expensive, but he is a complete monster and his Waagh is straight money.

After that, a KFF Mek sounds good.

I'd go for Ghaz, KFF Mek and then at least 4 Wagons full of stuff. Lootas and Deffkoptas with Rokkits and Buzzsaws are also great. The Koptas outflanking in will either get a charge into the side of the enemy lines on their tanks, or if they get the wrong table edge they're really fast and the Rokkits can perhaps score a stunned or two on the way in. Maybe look at something like this:

Ghazghkull Thraka
225

Big Mek: KFF
85

8x Nobz: Painboy, 'Eavy Armor, 3x Power Klaw, 1x Bosspole
Battlewagon: 4x Big Shoota, Deff Rolla, Grot Riggers, Boarding Plank
440

18x Boyz: Nob: Power Klaw, Boss Pole
148

20x Boyz" Nob: Power Klaw, Boss Pole
160

20x Boyz: Nob: Power Klaw, Boss Pole
160

Deffkopta: TL Rokkits, Buzzsaw
70

Deffkopta: TL Rokkits, Buzzsaw
70

Battlewagon: 4x Big Shoota, Deff Rolla, Grot Riggers, Boarding Plank
130

Battlewagon: 4x Big Shoota, Deff Rolla, Grot Riggers, Boarding Plank
130

Battlewagon: 4x Big Shoota, Deff Rolla, Grot Riggers, Boarding Plank
130

TOTAL: 1748

Killing 4 AV14 tanks in 2 turns is not something most armies can do. With Ghaz's Waaagh you can get in 1/2 turn earlier too since you're guaranteed 6" moves and can charge from them. With this you can effectively stop your Wagons before they make melta range and then jump out and charge. KFF Mek goes in the Wagon that sits in the center of the formation so it can cover the others for extra protection. AV14 at range is a complete PITA to kill, let alone 4 of them packed with boyz and Ghazzie coming right for you.

I honestly have no clue if the list is actually good or not, but it is a pile of stuff that seems strong all wrapped up into one.

Caffran9 wrote:advice

This is really good stuff. Great place to start with your criteria (assault and mechanized)

I have to strongly agree that Ghaz is a great bonus to any Ork list if you are willing to pay the points for him. Even though he is not not as good Abby but he can pull down a DP without breaking a sweat. Between Ghaz and Calgar I thing it would be truly a fun match to watch. I like your list but I am not crazy about DeffKoptas even though I own 24 of them (damn AoBR boxset). Cool model but not a unit I field.

I think a firebase of Lootas will be better served point wise than the DeffKopta since you are only running two. I have seen one Plague Marine with a meltagun run a unit of DeffKoptas off the board over 24".

Pipboy101 wrote:I have seen one Plague Marine with a meltagun run a unit of DeffKoptas off the board over 24".

And I have seen one deffkopta with rokkit and buzzsaw turbo boost in his scout move, shoot and kill a chimera, then charge the veterans as they fell out and scoop them up. On turn one.

5 is bad, they are leadership 7. 1 is good, fast, front loaded and suicidal.

just one Deffkopta? Huh...I'd not thought of that...

Shep wrote:

Pipboy101 wrote:I have seen one Plague Marine with a meltagun run a unit of DeffKoptas off the board over 24".

And I have seen one deffkopta with rokkit and buzzsaw turbo boost in his scout move, shoot and kill a chimera, then charge the veterans as they fell out and scoop them up. On turn one.

5 is bad, they are leadership 7. 1 is good, fast, front loaded and suicidal.

Good rolls for both but relying on either tactic is a gamble at best.

Back on OT, its about creating situations to maximize your odds and minimizing your opponents odds.

GoFenris wrote:Good rolls for both but relying on either tactic is a gamble at best.

which is often the case when you see a sentence start with "i have seen"

However, a single deffkopta coming from reserve, firing twin-linked rokkits into side armor, and then charging into the same vehicle hitting rear armor with 3 strength 7 attacks, doesn't need ridiculous luck to take out a transport, or any of the marine tanks aside from LR.

I am the most conservative player in my gaming group, or at least the top two. I don't 'gamble' when i play. (because I can't handle the stress) I use singleton deffkoptas in almost every ork list I write. Their rules allow for them to get their shots off and even in many cases their charges off without being shot at, so their fragility is less of an issue. They are front loaded to capitalize on that 'free hit' capability. And they hurt tanks. A perfect compliment to the orks

singleton? I don't understand. One Deffkopta?

GoFenris wrote:singleton? I don't understand. One Deffkopta?

yes. The same config that Caffran9 listed

Hmm, I actually like Deffkoptas but not just one. Something to try, I guess.

The solitary Deffkoptas really make opposing players sweat because if they go unchecked they can eat rear armor and smash into weakened squads. It really changes the way the opposing player looks at the game because they're very hard for mech type lists to ignore. If the Ork player is going to go first then he should deploy them aggressively and go for the first turn charge. If going second I think reserves/outflank is perfect (which one depends o nthe nature of the opposing player's list). They won't ALWAYS work (obviously) but they're really cheap for the effect they have and make perfect suicide units and 1 for 1+ trades.

Thanks for the comments.

Single deffcoptas sounds interesting - I'll have to give that a try.

Are truck boyz effective objective sitters? They seem a little fragile although with four I could double them up.

I was considering lootas to get some firepower but it's going to dilute the assault force so I'm not sure if that's wise?

Trukk Boyz are useful for that purpose. Positioning of this unit is key (as is the case with any unit). In game timing when the Trukk Boyz unit gets onto an objective is critical as they are not an overly durable unit.

With multiple Battlewagons rolling around, my lone Trukk is usually left alone unless I screw up and it becomes a target of opportunity.

Ghaz is a very good buy from my experience. Being able to call the Waagh at any time in the game can be a huge advantage that can throw your opponent's gameplan off. I've been practicing my army for the Necronomicon and am very happy I included him.

I run a single Deff Kopta and it does ok. However, I did not model a Buzzsaw on it and now wish I did. Getting the twin link shot off works ok, but S8 vs. S4 on the charge against a vehicle has hurt me many a game.

Trukks just die so fast. Maybe with a pile of Battlewagons rampaging around the Trukks will take less fire, but I think you'll have to drop a Battlewagon to find points for that stuff, which I don't like much. You could drop some Nobs from the unit, but I think it is pretty important to have a unit that hits like a ton of bricks since the Boyz will be underwhelming against opposing assault elements.

What's this 8 battlewagon army people keep mentioning?

2 warbosses make two nob mobs troops, so: 2 troop nobs in BWs, 3 elite nobs in BWs and 3 heavy support BWs.

My friend ran a successful ork battle wagon list for a while. He had a KFF big mek to obscure his battle wagons, which were screened by warbuggies (protected by the KFF). The warbuggies would provide some cheap anti-tank power and screen the battle wagons from meltaguns and assaults (both of which are deadly to open-topped, rear armour 10 vehicles).