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Heya. Im pretty new to the warhammer game, but I know the rules pretty good. The problem is, I cant seem to win any games at my local shop. Sometimes its close coming down to rolls, but you can only blame luck once in awhile right? Anyways, I play orks, and space marines. And the meta game at my shop is this "all 8-10 strength ap 1-2 weapons and as minimum troop and hq" I figured playing a swarm army would be a good way to stop the las-cannons and railguns being fired at me but the problem comes with our tau and "nid" players. The tau is far to mobile for power claws (or fists) to chase down, and has 72 inch range, so it nukes my las tanks or devastator squads. The nids are another tough one, they field 2 or 3 carnafix fully decked out with melee gear, the Zone-throps (Or whatever) and hive tyrants. So swarm boys cant even touch them, Space marines with heavy anti tank would do well I reckon. I always seem to lose anhilation, and I can never not roll anything but that. So, is there any suggestions/army ideas or play styles I should get better at? Oh, keep in mind we almost always play 1000 point games

welcome to my world--when I started playing I was the consistent loser of my gaming group. First, I'd suggest you also post in the Army List forum and give details about your armies - and describe what you normally go up against. this will help (since I cna hardly give advice not knowing your usual army comp/what models you have). That said, some general things:

With your Orks, you've got the right idea with swarming them--all their expensive Str8-10, AP1-2 weapons are going to be a waste of points on you (they'l still hurt just as much though). But with a swarm it's always go big or go home--you should have 120 boyz to do it right.

With Marines, I'm beginning to find, though I'm sure people here will laugh at me for suggesting it--ignore your special stuff--cram as many tactical marines into your armies as possible. In a 1000pt game, imagine coming with 50 marines (5 full squads), a chaplain, and maybe, if you cna fit it, one speciality item - again, their expensive stuff *will* kill you, but they won't kill your troops fast enough to make a difference. For those specific things like the big bugs (the Carnifex, Tyrant, etc), you'll need to use the dev squad--but with your orks don't underestimate Lootas - heavy D3 shots at str7. Get 30 lootas....

With either of these---concentration of fire, concentration of fire, concentration of fire! spreading out your firing to try and get as many targets as possible is never the way to go. pick something, and fire everything at it until you render it combat-ineffective (note that this does not necessarily mean kill it outright - forcing them to flee, or bringing them wlel under half strength (25% say) is enough, as they're no longer a scoring unit. That's the other thing---you may be focussing too much on killing your opponents' stuff, and losing site of the mission objectives. (maybe you're not, I'm just thinking of possible explanations).

Good advice,
but take care -

General_K wrote: or bringing them wlel under half strength (25% say) is enough, as they're no longer a scoring unit.

Being reduce to half strength does not matter in 5th Ed. Any infantry troop choice with one model left can still score.

crap--yeah. I should have prefixed that with "I'm still in the process of adapting/re-wiring my brain to 5th ed." - or, edition 3.95, really...the rules haven't evolved THAT much since the original 3rd ed. (at least not in the same dramatic way they did during the switch from 2nd to 3rd)

SM as said tactical squads are the way to go with possibly one large unit of Scouts with Sergeant Telion (note since he has stealth he effectively only cost 20pts if you were to buy every one camo cloaks). While talking about special characters i should warn that some of them require allot of work to get used to. Still, If you're just filling the mandatory HQ slot I can recommend Chaplain Cassius, Toughness 6 Power Armour 3+ save and Feel no pain, all for only 125pts.

==Simple Do's and Do Not's for space marines==
++Do take Power Fists on all your sergeant
++Do take any all meltaguns you can.
--Do Not pay for a heavy weapon for your Tactical squad (chances are you'll be moving and won't get to use it, free ones good)
--Do Not make an army themed around just one of the SM toys (for example an all Drop pod army or 6 man dreadnought army) They can work but more often then not can be easily beaten by an opponent that knows it weakness.

Sorry can't be much help with ork's other then to say take as many looters as you can

That's somewhat confusing advice. Power fists are not always desirable, especially not in five-man combat squads. Further, there are some cases where you'll find flamers to be better than meltas, and Tactical heavy weapons (especially lascannons) can be effective in some situations.

Post their lists and post yours. I'm concerned if your taking devastators =P. While not THAT bad they won't hold up to metagame.

If they don't take many troops try to challenge them to an objective mission and laugh once you obliterate their troops.

Also, if they aren't taking metlas, put 2 LR's on the board and watch your opponents reaction. Even try out Daemonhunters and run 3 LR's in a 1k points list. That would be fun lol.

Space Marines are well equipped to obliterate small scoring units practically at will, with the large variety of deep striking hard hitting units, like dreadnoughts in Pods and the like.

It may cost you a unit to do it, but in an objective game its a very valid strategy.

Jack

Idea is all infantry and I think this list will do well in hand to hand if they come at you I like the idea of maxing out on troops to make it hard to kill the whole army, here is a list that will perform well I think.

175 Pedro kantor, he comes with orbitla bombardent and gives your whole army stubborn, stern guard count as scoring and gives all modles withing 12 inches plus one attack, making your army able to take on assaulters and hold your own.

210 10 man tac squad 170, las cannon and melta gun, power fist on the searg.

210 tac sqaud same as obove.

195 6 stern guard, plasma cannon, plasma cannon, power fist

205 6 sternguard las cannon las cannon, power fist


comes out to 995 5 points to add a combi melta in a stern guard squad.

stern guard act as dev marines and count as scoring, plus with pedro nearbye they have base 3 attacks.

4 las cannons, should be ok at 1000 points. plus the orbital bombardment, 2 meltas and one combi melta.

combat squad will give you 6 scoring units if needed.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or this would be a cool list also,

5 tac squad razor back twin las cannon.

165 points.

tac sqaud same as obove.

165 points.

librarian

100 points.

land raider

250 points

predator w auto cannon las cannons

120 points.

5 terminators with thunder hammer storm shields

200 points

1000 points exactly

heavy mech list with some hard hitting terminators might be a blast to play with.

Fetterkey wrote:That's somewhat confusing advice. Power fists are not always desirable, especially not in five-man combat squads. Further, there are some cases where you'll find flamers to be better than meltas, and Tactical heavy weapons (especially lascannons) can be effective in some situations.

A) I've never regretted taking a powerfist even if i combat squad (making people think twice about sending their MC into HtH is never a bad thing)
B)I rarely want a flamer with my tac squad ... but it wouldn't hurt to take it instead of a meltagun
C) Not a fan of Lascannons YMMV but they're just not up to the job of tank hunting.

"all 8-10 strength ap 1-2 weapons and as minimum troop and hq"

So, basically, still in 4e?

Are you guys playing any of the missions in the 5e book? Min troops really blows in objective missions.

This metagame seems very vulnerable to Orks, much better tuned to killing Marines.

I'm not clear which army you want tips for, tho.

Tri wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:That's somewhat confusing advice. Power fists are not always desirable, especially not in five-man combat squads. Further, there are some cases where you'll find flamers to be better than meltas, and Tactical heavy weapons (especially lascannons) can be effective in some situations.

A) I've never regretted taking a powerfist even if i combat squad (making people think twice about sending their MC into HtH is never a bad thing)
B)I rarely want a flamer with my tac squad ... but it wouldn't hurt to take it instead of a meltagun
C) Not a fan of Lascannons YMMV but they're just not up to the job of tank hunting.

I dunno. Sometimes I've taken a power fist only to have the Sergeant gets torrented away before he gets a chance to do anything, and small squads are particularly vulnerable to this. I don't really fear MCs much thanks to Combat Tactics and the large amount of anti-tank firepower my armies usually bring to the table.

Well, after much consideration my ork army (generaly) is going to be this

120 boys 12 rokkit launchers (3 in every squad)+1 nob per sqaud all boys with shooters. = 880
Big mek with kff= 85
Trukk-35

Total 1000 points

With this build though I am more worried about bottle necking myself, and getting stuck down field, AND big bugs. tanks wont worry me to much, land raiders arent even in our current game, although there is a necron player that fields night bringers and monoliths. as for my opponents lists, they change very often but commonly...

Necron player

20 warriors +lord with murder scyth (what ever its real name is) and res orb.
3-6 heavy destroyers

somtimes he changes it to field a monolith or a night bringer however he has every model for the necron army, so he can field lots of different things.

Tyranid player
Carnafix with all melee upgrades x2 (or somtimes three)
Carnafix with range upgrades
Hive tyrant (melee upgrades)
Minimum gaunts.
Zone-throps. (x3)
All of his big units always take the upgrades for more armor and more toughness. Im not really sure on much nid stuff

TAU
Hammer head tank with movement upgrade
Ion cannon tank with same upgrade
Gundam squad with 9str ap2 rifles (he can field heavy flamers) and shield drones, and bonding knives
Firewarriors (max numbers no upgrades)

Space marines
3 dreadnaughts with lasscannons
Chaptermaster in terma armor.
2 10 man sqauds with lasscannoncs


We always roll for game type, and I am fully aware my well rounded space marine build (I dont feel like posting) and my new orc build would do GREAT in capture and control as well as sieze ground but in annihilation I get romped on and I ALWAYS end up rolling annihilation.

I assume all your Nobs have power klaws? The lone trukk isn't going to do much. Never field one vehicle, especially not a weak vehicle like a Trukk.

It sounds like you're only playing 1000 point games? If that's true, then go for gold. Your opponents lists are not that hard, but a balanced list like the one you are using won't work for you.

For your marines, take Shrike and a unit of 10 Assault terminators, and then a couple of rhino/razorback tac squads. Then, multicharge everybody with fleeting assault terminators with thunder hammers and stormshields. They won't know what to do, and you'll roll big bugs and necrons like a hot knife through butter.

Beware the nightbringer though, no invul save hurts.

Also, the tau don't have S9 AP2 guns. And the crisis suits don't get heavy flamers, only regular flamers.

For your orks, take a squad of biker nobz, or a couple units of nobz in battlewagons, followed by orks in trukkz. That will learn'em too.

LOL that space marine players is stuck in 4E majorly.

Spamming 120 boyz would probably work. If you want to own them though go with the nob bikerz.

30 Boyz and a Nob with a Klaw, will kill a Fex with no problem at all. People tend to be terrified of Carnifexes, but in reality, they're not especially strong in CC due to their limited number of attacks. Orks will just laff at the 3-6 Boyz lost, kill the Fex with Klaw attacks, and move on.

As has been said, you can't go too wrong with a lot of Boyz and some Klaws.

how is a lascannon not up to the job of tank hunting? It's the only weapon with a high enough strength in the marine list, save a multimelta, but a MM's range sucks. (unless of course you put it on a LS or AB)

General_K wrote:how is a lascannon not up to the job of tank hunting? It's the only weapon with a high enough strength in the marine list, save a multimelta, but a MM's range sucks. (unless of course you put it on a LS or AB)

They have the range but they cost too much for one shot at str 9. The melta guns and multimeltas are free or much cheaper. Rang sucks a little but since its both a melta weapon and AP 1 it does a much better job killing tanks. I do agree that the best place for a multi melta is on a Land Speeder and attack bikes (normal bikes don't to bad ether).

Form a games point of view if lasCannon cost the same as the multimeltas or were AP1 i think thats a different matter and they'd have a greater place in SM army lists.

Firstly I have to say I do not believe that Tau have a s9 rifle its s6 boardside have s10 railguns though. Crisis suits get flamers(s4) not heavy flamers not that it really matters against orks.
My 1k list
1000 Pts - Orks - oky 1k

HQ: Warboss (1), 110 Pts
Power Klaw; Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-weapon; 'Eavy Armour; Bosspole; Cybork Body
Big Mek (1), 110 Pts
Power Klaw; Kustom Force Field
Troops: Meganobz (5), 260 Pts
Power Klaw; Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-weapon (x5)
Trukk [35]
Boyz (22#, 177 Pts) shootas w/big shootas
Nob Power Klaw [41]
Boyz (22#, 177 Pts) shootas w/big shootas
Nob Power Klaw [41]
Boyz (22#, 177 Pts) shootas w/big shootas
Nob Power Klaw [41]
Total Cost: 999

Model Count: 72

Yes it has just one trukk and I care not its only 35pts. If I go first it'll put my nobz and boss where I want them on the first turn besides if they blow up the trukk odds are good i'll still be in a good position. I choose shoota boyz over slugga boyz nowadays since they are assault2 18" s4 and still have 2 base attacks. Power klaws are awesome I put them everywhere I can.