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Hi again,

after a couple of years the 40K bug is itching again. I read the 5th ed rules, don't like all of it, but I really want to try them out. ;-)
After playing Harlequins, Exodites, Ulthwe Eldar, Dark Eldar, Tau and SoB; I want to try an Ultramarine army this time.

http://www.agisn.de/html/40_k.html

And here I need your advice!
I want to center my 1500 pts army around Marneus Calgar in the armour of Antilochus.
So - what would you recommend as a nice playable force within the following parameter:
- a chance of winning one or two games (really friendly stuff, no GT power game!),
- few models (don't want to paint too much and do not want to spend too much money...)
- Marneus as army general
- no Scouts,
- no Librarians
- no Bikes or attack Bikes
- no Land Speeders.

Every helpful thought is appreciated!
Thanks already.

Well picking a space marine army is nearly always good if you don't want to paint too many models. SM squads aren't that big, and the boxes with soldiers vary from 5-10 models, depending on whether they're devastators, tacticals, assault marines.

I can give you an indication of what you should take in your 1500 pts army, though I'm not going to do any specific calculating on how many marines etc to take to get exactly 1500 pts if you don't mind.

I see you want Marneus Calgar in his armor of Antilochus, as general. Also, I take it you are buying the 5 model box with Calgar (+antilochus armor) & 4 honor guard (1 with standard bearer, 1 champion & 2 plain guards)? In that case it means you already have a nice, strong sort of command group for your general. You can always take another back-up hero which focusses on ranged (Calgar is a bit more melee with his dual power fists), which can also be joined by a command squad if you like. Or take Cato Sicarius, really cool hero, but again: melee focussed.

Now for the rest, are you going to play in a defensive way? or do you want launch a quick & strong assault to crush your opponent.

For both playing styles I'd highly recommend atleast 1 or 2 10-man tactical squads. It just is your army's spine. For their special weapons it depends, flamers are assault weapons, but if you want heavy bolters, or missile launchers, your unit can't move if they want to shoot = great for defensive players. Also for both styles, take an assault squad, they are fast & rock in CC.

Depending on your budget, I'd suggest a landraider, or predator for heavy support.

Then again, it really would depend on your play-style...

If you want to go defensive, and wait for the enemy to come & keep firing at them, you won't be needing any drop pods, or rhino's etc. If you do want to rush in, take (assault) terminators to deep strike, assault marines can do that too, drop pods to quickly get your troops there and rhino's + a landraider.

For the troops you don't want, scouts can be good, especially to deploy beacons for your deep striking troops, landspeeders & bikes are fast, but won't be much of a help for defensive players, librarians are good, but not a must-have imo.

To have a chance to win (also for friendly games ) make sure to always have a sort of balance in your army. Some ranged guys, melee to engage enemies close to your ranged guys. 1 or 2 tanks for back-up.

However, if you want to build your army around the Calgar stories, I guess you'll be going to play very offensive? Drop pod assaults, deepstriking termies & assault squads? You should be able to manage that within 1500 pts and still have a nice tank and/or devastator squad as heavy support.

Once you've decided your play-style we can talk a bit more about specific units & their weapon load-out Hope it helped a bit

Tip: if you don't want to spend too much money, you can often create certain hero's or troops by converting ones that are cheaper than the original models. That's also great to personalize the army, and by the looks of the list of armies you already collectedm I guess you have more than enough spare bits to use. This is especially effective for SM as nearly all wear the same power armour, they all look the same

good advice above.

can I ask why you want to avoid scouts, Attack bikes and landspeeders?

I would stress a squad of terminators--preferably assault - to tag-team with Marneus and his cmd sqd. I'd actually take 1-2 more tactical squads, too--full men, with HB. Fire support!

General_K wrote:good advice above.
can I ask why you want to avoid scouts, Attack bikes and landspeeders?

Very simple: I do not like the models at all! ;-)
I have to confess that I am more a painter then a hardcore gamer, so I am more "look of miniature" oriented.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Field Tacticus Maximus wrote:Now for the rest, are you going to play in a defensive way? or do you want launch a quick & strong assault to crush your opponent.

I like the aggressive approach for SM! And that is where my 1st rule question came in: How to get Marneus quickly into the action with his Honour Guard. Since the armour of Antilochus is Terminator armour I can get him into a Drop Pod, or?

Field Tacticus Maximus wrote:For both playing styles I'd highly recommend atleast 1 or 2 10-man tactical squads. It just is your army's spine. For their special weapons it depends, flamers are assault weapons, but if you want heavy bolters, or missile launchers, your unit can't move if they want to shoot = great for defensive players. Also for both styles, take an assault squad, they are fast & rock in CC.

I was thinking of 2 10 Marine Squads, Flamer and Missile Launcher in Drop Pods.

Field Tacticus Maximus wrote:Depending on your budget, I'd suggest a landraider, or predator for heavy support.

Hmm, a LR would be OK for me.

Field Tacticus Maximus wrote:Hope it helped a bit

A lot, thanks already! :-)

Weapon load-out for the tactical (flamer & missile launchers) look good, I use those myself often aswell. If you also have a devastator squad, you can easily give those other weapons, and if you don't use the devastators you can use one of those with a heavy weapon instead of the original tactical marine with a special weapon. Gives you the ability to select gear which suits you the best for the fight.

For the transport of Calgar. The armor of Antilochus counts as terminator indeed. But terminator armor allows the wearer to deep strike. According to the latest SM codex, the armor of Antilochus also includes a teleport homer, making deep strike a bit more reliable aswell. Although the honor guard that may aid Calgar, can't deep strike. So if you want the honor guard near Calgar, I'd suggest using a LR, as it can transport termies. If you want to deep strike with Calgar, it's best to have in a group of assault terminators

Field Tacticus Maximus wrote:For the transport of Calgar. The armor of Antilochus counts as terminator indeed. But terminator armor allows the wearer to deep strike. According to the latest SM codex, the armor of Antilochus also includes a teleport homer, making deep strike a bit more reliable aswell. Although the honor guard that may aid Calgar, can't deep strike. So if you want the honor guard near Calgar, I'd suggest using a LR, as it can transport termies. If you want to deep strike with Calgar, it's best to have in a group of assault terminators

Hmm, so Marneus + a group of assault terminators to deep strike and the Honour Guard in a Drop Pod, that should work! :-)
I will work out an army list to critique based on your advise!

Also, 1st test Marine painted:

Looking forward to see your army list when it's done

Btw: nice marine, love the sand-dirt on the power armor, gives the marine a cool look. Other than the all clean marines who seem to come freshly out of the oven. What head did you use for that marine?

And the desert-style base + the fact you're building your army around Marneus Calgar, I take it your army will be fighting on Macragge? Having any plans on making a Macragge battlefield?

Do you free-hand paint those symbols on the shoulder plates or do you use decals? Decals never seem to work for me, not sticking onto the model very well, and the shape of the shoulder pads don't make it any easier. My free-hand painting skills aren't that good, so I'm thinking of cutting na -shape out of a piece of paper, which I then can temporarily attach to my model, and just paint it white, remove the paper again & voila...atleast, if it works that is hehe

Field Tacticus Maximus wrote:Looking forward to see your army list when it's done

What do you think?
1500 Pts - Space Marines Roster - Calgar UM

HQ: Marneus Calgar, Lord Macragge (7#, 550 Pts)
1 Marneus Calgar, Lord Macragge @ 550 Pts
Gauntlets of Ultramar; Iron Halo; Power Sword; Armor of Antiochus; Honour Guard Squad
1 Gauntlets of Ultramar @ [0] Pts
1 Armor of Antiochus @ [15] Pts
Teleport Homer
1 Teleport Homer @ [0] Pts
5 Honour Guard Squad @ [285] Pts
Artificer Armour; Bolt Pistol (x5); Bolter (x5); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Weapon; Chapter Banner; Relic Blade (x2)
1 Chapter Banner @ [0] Pts
1 Chapter Champion @ [10] Pts
Artificer Armour; Bolt Pistol; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Weapon; Digital Lasers; Combat Blade

Elite: Terminator Squad (5#, 230 Pts)
4 Terminator Squad @ 230 Pts
Power Fist (x4); Storm Bolter (x3); Assault Cannon
1 Terminator Armour @ [0] Pts
1 Sergeant @ [40] Pts
Power Sword; Storm Bolter
1 Terminator Armour @ [0] Pts

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 225 Pts)
9 Tactical Squad @ 225 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x9); Bolter (x7); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Flamer; Missile Launcher; Rhino
1 Sergeant @ [28] Pts
Bolt Pistol; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Melta Bombs; Chainsword
1 Rhino @ [50] Pts
Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter; Extra Armor

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 225 Pts)
9 Tactical Squad @ 225 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x9); Bolter (x7); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Flamer; Missile Launcher; Rhino
1 Sergeant @ [28] Pts
Bolt Pistol; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Melta Bombs; Chainsword
1 Rhino @ [50] Pts
Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter; Extra Armor

Heavy Support: Land Raider (1#, 265 Pts)
1 Land Raider @ 265 Pts
Power of the Machine Spirit; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin Linked Heavy Bolter; Twin Linked Lascannon (x2); Extra Armor

Total Roster Cost: 1495
So 20 Marines, 5 Terminators, Marneus and 5 HG. Plus 2 Rhinos and 1 LR.
Not too much to paint and hopefully still playable!

Field Tacticus Maximus wrote:Btw: nice marine, love the sand-dirt on the power armor, gives the marine a cool look. Other than the all clean marines who seem to come freshly out of the oven. What head did you use for that marine?

Thanks, the helmet is from a Polish back-market company...

Field Tacticus Maximus wrote:And the desert-style base + the fact you're building your army around Marneus Calgar, I take it your army will be fighting on Macragge? Having any plans on making a Macragge battlefield?

Not at all, I have a Roboute Guilliman minis lying around that will work as a stand-in for Marneus! The army will be Heresy era themed.
;-)

Field Tacticus Maximus wrote:Do you free-hand paint those symbols on the shoulder plates or do you use decals? Decals never seem to work for me, not sticking onto the model very well, and the shape of the shoulder pads don't make it any easier. My free-hand painting skills aren't that good, so I'm thinking of cutting na -shape out of a piece of paper, which I then can temporarily attach to my model, and just paint it white, remove the paper again & voila...atleast, if it works that is hehe

All decals and some free hand details afterwards. I use Vallejo Decal Medium to soften the decal and finsih it with Decal Fix.
Works for me.

Ah ok, thanks for the tip on the decals, should try to get me some of that stuff or something alike in town.

Army list looks good, balanced enough I think, though you don't have any pure CC troops. So are you gonna send in Calgar + honor guard with the LR? As the termies you chose are equipped with storm bolters + power fists instead of the pure melee outfit lightning claws or thunder hammers + strom shields? Although both will kill most mere men in CC

Just 1 thing about the honor guard. You know that the boxed set with Calgar + honor guard is a 5 model box, so makes 4 honor guard, instead of 5. Are you gonna order another single marine to add to that? Or will you convert something into the 5th?

Field Tacticus Maximus wrote:Army list looks good, balanced enough I think, though you don't have any pure CC troops. So are you gonna send in Calgar + honor guard with the LR? As the termies you chose are equipped with storm bolters + power fists instead of the pure melee outfit lightning claws or thunder hammers + strom shields? Although both will kill most mere men in CC

Intended as Jack of all trades...
And the HG plus Marneus will be indeed in the LR deployed.

Field Tacticus Maximus wrote:Just 1 thing about the honor guard. You know that the boxed set with Calgar + honor guard is a 5 model box, so makes 4 honor guard, instead of 5. Are you gonna order another single marine to add to that? Or will you convert something into the 5th?

No problem, I will covert something, I do not made up my mind at the moment if I want the Box at all...

Ah alright, just thought to let you know there were only 4 honor guard in the box. Otherwise you might have ended up buying the box (it's all expensive enough imo) & then when you come home it's like: where the is my 5th marine?!

Anyway, good luck on your army, hope to see some pics of it when it's finished


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Edit: if I'd take my time to type more properly I wouldn't have to edit my posts all the time

I'd recommend not deep striking assault terminators. They won't be able to do anything for a turn other than soak up fire.

That is exactly one of the reasons why I want "normal" Terminators. Deep Strike and give fire where most needed!

Well Kaloran, when you deep strike, it's not that you must deep strike right infront of everyone's faces & then catch all the bullets. You can also deep strike near cover, out LoS etc.

AAN wrote:That is exactly one of the reasons why I want "normal" Terminators. Deep Strike and give fire where most needed!

Throw on a couple of chain fists and a CML and you'll have a really fun unit.

Field Tacticus Maximus wrote:Well Kaloran, when you deep strike, it's not that you must deep strike right infront of everyone's faces & then catch all the bullets. You can also deep strike near cover, out LoS etc.

And then waste yet another turn walking to your target. Scatter too far away, or into that cover, and you've got yourself a problem. I just find that land raiders are optimal for Assault Terminators. Marneus is a pretty expensive unit to have bogged down, or even lost, to deep strike shenanigans.