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I squeezed every point out in to this list. For ELITES, I had an alternative idea using a Land Raider instead. For HEAVY, I throught about using Vindicators instead of Defilers. Let me know what you think my fellow dicers.

HQ

Chaos Sorc w/ MoS, and LoS (in transport)

Chaos Sorc w/ MoS, and LoS (in transport)

ELITES

Terminators x5 w/ Chainfist x2, Combi Melta x4 (Land Raider, Extra Armor)

TROOPS

CSM x10 AsChamp w/ PF, Flamer, Melta

CSM x10 AsChamp w/ PF, Flamer, Melta

CSM x10 AsChamp w/ PF, Flamer, Melta, Rhino w/ Extra Armor

Plague Marines x8 AsChamp w/ PF, Melta x2, Rhino w/ Extra Armor

Plague Marines x8 AsChamp w/ PF, Melta x2, Rhino w/ Extra Armor

HEAVY

Oblits x3

Oblits x3

Vindicator w/ Daemonic Possession

POINTS: 2498

well...

daemon prince is not always a good choice... you cannot really hide it in a unit, cos' it's obviously a MC... as far as i play chaos, the DP always got killed in first half of the game, as all opponent's big guns aimed the biggest target... maybe if you put a Chaos sorcerer(JP)+raptors with LoS, it could do better (if the sorcerer manages to pull a unit towards raptors with mark of khorne, this could be very bad for the opponent, and you must admit that a unit of raptors with ChS can do a lot more wounds than a single DP)

terminators... ok, but do you want them to approach the enemy line on foot? there's just 4 of them in each unit, and they do not have any long-range weapons, so walking are useless, the only possibility i see is that you wanted to deep-strike them

with obliterators, i do not see reason for putting an AsChamp with PF in every CSM unit... save those points for another CSM unit! they are marines, we cannot forget, and they can hold back half of the universe's infantry... nonetheless, your plague marines have the PF's... i would take pure CSM squads, and buy 1-2 more for saved points

oblits n1, depending on amounts of opponent's machines, you can substitute oblits for 1 defiler

defilers: as you are keeping autocannons, and defiler has funny armor, i see no reason for taking extra DCCW... keep the heavy flamer, or, what's better, substitute it with havoc launcher!


last thing that hits my head: try khorne berzerkers instead of 1 CSM squad... put 10 of them in rhino with extra plates and keep it hidden, pulling it out in right moment can be crucial

The daemon price is what it is. It works or doesn't but while the other side wastes fire power on it, my other stuff doesn't get touched.

Terminators are going to deepstrike, But right now I am leaning towards on squad in a land raider as I am told people mech out alot in tourneys.

Last time I didn't put PF in my CSM squads, I got caught with my pants down facing a dread or wraithlord.

The oblits stay. They are a great utility unit, for any occasion, plus again another great target, cause people over estimate their use.

The heavy flamer rarely works well in the game for a defiler, ive used them ALOT even when they weren't popular, and they just dont work, extra DCCW is for the move-fleet-charge on appoaching vehicles, cant beat str 10. however I am trying to think if I should take vindi in stead...

As for rhinos, i have one more, when I change up my list ill see if i can put one more. The plague guard in the rhinos are to rush and capture objective, while the rest follow up, with the ordnance in the background.

In this years ard boys your opponents will kill both your DPs as soon as they hit the table because they are worth 5 KP each! I don thtink its worth having two HQ choices unless you can hide them inside transports and/or in really hard infantry. Ususally i would tell you to keep both, but if you do the second mission will screw you over, and you need to win. I would get rid of one DP, and hold the other in reserve on the second mission to DS him behind cover.

MoT is too expensive for such small terminator squads. 4 squads wont hang around for long anyway because they will get shot to pieces by small arms fire. Save the points for more rhinos

You've set up your troops incorrectly. The plague marines in rhinos should have two meltas and the footslogging squads should have longer ranged weapons. With the points you save from the terminators you can give another two squads rhinos, so you can give both of those meltas two. In a likely mech heavy environment meltas are fantastic. You probably wont need more than 4 troops, so you may want to drop the footslogging squad. Remember, for they way you have your troops set up plague marines are just better in all respects.

Defilers arent as good as oblits. Oblits are better at eveything than defilers so you should have these instead. They also give you some more ranged anti-tank, which you sorely need.

The oblits stay. They are a great utility unit, for any occasion, plus again another great target, cause people over estimate their use.

not really sure if it is possible to overestimate the obliterators... i did not say you should remove them, i said you should cancel one defiler and add an obliterator squad

you did not mention that you want to play turnaments! That changes basically everything... As today's metagame is heavily armoured (mech orks, mech eldar... things that were not common 2 years ago), you need mainly melta's, and long-range antitank squads... definitely 2x obli. squad, and i would try vindicator with daemonic possession and extra armour(160pts).... the problem with the defiler is that it's front armour is ridiculous... mine got shot in very first round with a lascannon (which only has to roll 3+ for armour penetration)

i would also take a LR as a transport for elite termies, absolutely

the last point... did you think of a summoned greater daemon instead of one DP? a bit better characteristics for cc, and 10points cheaper

the last point... did you think of a summoned greater daemon instead of one DP? a bit better characteristics for cc, and 10points cheaper

I would but taking a greater daemon in this tournament could hurt me big time in the second scenario (HQ=5 Kill points)

Since people are so sure about the mechanized environment I am going to switch it up and change my list.

hippohroch wrote: i would try vindicator with daemonic possession and extra armour(160pts)....

Are you kidding me? You buy possession AND extra armour? You realize possession makes extra armour useless right? Entirely? Why would you do that?

Hey...

Just been reading through - sounds like the DP's will become bullet magnets (as they often do ).

They are the best HQ choice, if you discount named characters though.

Personally, I would rather take Warptime as I regularly chop up 5 infantry models on the charge with the re-rolls to hit & wound.

From the sounds of the tournament rules though, it might be worth taking Kharn or a couple of Lords with daemon weapons though.

TRANSPORTS!

OMG I can't say this enough Saddle up those CSM's in a Rhino with additional Combi-Bolter (for 5 points it stops a weapon destroyed + imbolised result detroying your tank). Mechised assaults are the hardest to stop (pop smoke!) and make your units much, much more mobile.

Jack of all trades...

Don't mix up your special weapons - you want as many MG shots firing at a single target as possible to ensure you pop that tank open ... or flammers hitting that horde unit. Mixing them will mean your units are a bit wishy-washy.

I would agree with hippohroch and say 2 units of obliterators & 1 defiler for my money - though both are good, think the versatility of the oblits wins out!

Hope that helps mate... GL with the tourney

spellbound sorry, i did not realize what i wrote down, as according to this new codex i just select the options from the organization chart entry...

I dont have anymore Oblits, unfortunately... ill check the number of termies i have and I'll see if i cant convert them (i rarely ever use more than 5 or 6 or 8 termies at a time and I have 11)

I am thinking of taking a nurgle DP now with time warp instead, considering the second round.

What should i make for a second HQ then? a great daemon via summoning? So that it can appear in whatever combat needing him?

let me know.

Go 2x Melta on the CSM squads. If you drop 1 Chainfist on each termi squad and trim the plaguers down a by a couple per squad you can squeeze a GD in (which adds some nice mid-late game killiness, and may even come in late enough on mission 2 to not penalize you). That's all I've got.

Edit: Guess I should share. I'm going to run 2x DP w/Tzeentch, WoC and Warptime, and a Greater Daemon and I'm going to keep all of them in reserves to bring them in later in the game on Mission 2. It *should* work as My Oblitz will be targetting things that could take them down easily first.

edit2: Your list is the first thing that pops up when you google "Chaos Ard Boyz," except on WarSeer. You're an internet celebrity.

Edited, please check it out. This for the most part will be my list.

If you ditch all the extra armor and demonic possession you can buy 2 more rhino's, that leaves 10pts, upgrade the 2 of the flamers to meltas. And replace 1 combi-melta with a heavy flamer (same cost).

I'll ponder that for a bit (two more days to do so), my plan was to switch out some of the weapons on the non rhino squads to missiles or lascannons. Maybe reduce the squad sizes to 6 each, and squeeze in a sixth squad with said missile or lascannon. Bulks out with more heavy weaps, ya know?

your final roster is very nice, it's just i still do not understand the use of AsChamp in the CSM squads, you are not going to walk them forward, are you? If you cancel them, U have 120pts more to spend, which means Greater Daemon and 20pts for upgrades on LR/Sorcerers/another plague marine?(of course you would have then 2501pts, but i think your opponents can handle that)

Lol 2501 at ard boyz? no way. 2500 and under. That excludes 2501. If you allow 1 over, what about 2.... 3....10?

ok then, find 1 point somewhere in the army list... maybe you could exclude one of those flamers

Keep in mind they changed the rules on how HQs award KPs in mission 2. Greater Daemons don't take up an HQ slot, so they are now only worth 1 KP. I had the same problem in my list and changed it, now I'm considering going back.

How many heavy weapons can a csm squad take?

Thanks.

1 heavy weapon, but only if they number 10+ models.

Ok, thanks.