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I read the ruleboobk quite a bit about this and am still confused.

Does the weapon have to say pistol for it to count as a close combat +1 when combined with another close combat weapon? Or does it just have to be one handed?


Example

orc boyz have a choppa and I think a slugga?(the weapon that is marked as a pistol), so the clearly get +1 in assaults.
Terminators that are equipped with a power glove and a storm bolter. both are one handed weapons, do they get this?
orc nobz have a choppa and I think it is a shoota? the shoota is designated as asssault 1 or 2, once again I do not have my rulebook with me at work. Does this mean they do not get the bonus or they do since the shotta is one handed?


Thanks

It has to be explicitly stated as a Close Combat Weapon. Shootas and Storm Bolters are not Close Combat Weapons, so they may not be used to gain a Bonus attack.

Also, Storm Bolters and Shootas are never defined as any sort of "handed".

Thanks!

The description needs to say pistol for it to be considered a valid CCW for the +1A rule.

Some of this is explained away by the fact that when a model has a shoota or storm bolter it also has a special weapon like a power glove or power claw. I.E meganobz have a kombi shoota and powerclaw for having mega armor. Termies have a storm bolter and power glove. If you have a special weapon you cannot use an offhand weapon with it unless it is an identical weapon. Regular nobz should have a slugga and choppa. They can upgrade to a kombi shoota, but then they replace both the choppa and slugga.

phillosmaster wrote: If you have a special weapon you cannot use an offhand weapon with it unless it is an identical weapon..

Just to clarify, this is wrong. Only Certain Special Weapons have this restriction, namely Power Fists, Lightning Claws and Thunder Hammers. "Normal" Special Weapons like Power Weapons do allow a Bonus attack when paired with a normal CCW.

That's correct. I spoke too quickly.

phillosmaster wrote:That's correct. I spoke too quickly.

May this be a learning experience for all. Now don't do it again or else it gets the hose again!

I'm a Tau and Ork player. The situation you described doesn't come up often for me. The only regular power weapon I use is the ork burna in assault and it's 2 handed.

drakedeming wrote:Does the weapon have to say pistol for it to count as a close combat +1 when combined with another close combat weapon? Or does it just have to be one handed?

There's actually a bit of debate over that one.

Page 42 defines the various weapons combinations that can be used in close combat, including close combat weapons and pistols.

The combinations listed at the end of the section define how they all work with extra attacks, and doesn't cover weapons that are not actually defined as close combat weapons (which includes pistols) of some kind. Or does, depending on how you read the intro passage.

Page 37 specifically grants the bonus attack to models having two single handed weapons, without any requirement for them to be defined as close combat weapons.


So some say that it has to be a close combat weapon, some say it just has to be single-handed.


To be honest, though, it's not a big issue, as there are very few items left in the game (solely confined to older codexes) that are defined as single handed that aren't also defined as close combat weapons or pistols.

phillosmaster wrote:I'm a Tau and Ork player. The situation you described doesn't come up often for me. The only regular power weapon I use is the ork burna in assault and it's 2 handed.

Where does it say that it is a 2 handed weapon? It says counts as a power weapon, and a power weapon and a pistol WILL give you another attack. It is never stated as a 2 handed power weapon like the relic blade, and therefore counts as a normal power weapon. This argument only affects big meks, i know, but it annoys me.

iamthecougar wrote:

phillosmaster wrote:I'm a Tau and Ork player. The situation you described doesn't come up often for me. The only regular power weapon I use is the ork burna in assault and it's 2 handed.

Where does it say that it is a 2 handed weapon? It says counts as a power weapon, and a power weapon and a pistol WILL give you another attack. It is never stated as a 2 handed power weapon like the relic blade, and therefore counts as a normal power weapon. This argument only affects big meks, i know, but it annoys me.

Yup, a Burna is not 2 Handed. Compare the wording to that of a Big Choppa, which IS two handed.

What's it matter if it's 2 handed? I can't find any rules that say if you have a 2 handed weapon you can't have another weapon. An Ork nob can have a big chompa, which is a 2 handed weapon, and a kombi weapon.

VoxDei wrote:What's it matter if it's 2 handed? I can't find any rules that say if you have a 2 handed weapon you can't have another weapon. An Ork nob can have a big chompa, which is a 2 handed weapon, and a kombi weapon.

Page 42:
If a model is using a two-handed close combat weapon, it may not use it together with another weapon.

Big Choppas are two handed weapons, so you cannot use it with another weapon to get +1 Attack. It doesn't stop you having more weapons though, you just cannot use them in Close combat.

Ahh. I see what you mean. you can't use it with a pistol to get the +1. Ya that's why i gave the guy the upgrade to the kombi weapon since he's not going to get his +1 attack anyway.

One of the advantages of being a SM & DH player is that I can benefit from "true grit", meaning and GK storm bolters count as pistols for the purpose of CC

MC

extermikator wrote:One of the advantages of being a SM & DH player is that I can benefit from "true grit", meaning and GK storm bolters count as pistols for the purpose of CC

MC

SM dont have True Grit, only Space Wolves do, and in a few Months they won't have it either.

I guess a burna isn't a two handed weapon. I review my codex, but there is no option to wield anything else when you have a burna so it's sort of a non issue. In a burna boyz squad only a Mek can take two 1 handed weapons and then he has to hand in his kustom mega blasta....that seems like a silly thing to do IMO, but I guess if you like the extra attacks on the assault that option is open to you.

I guess I always envisioned a burna as a big two handed weapon...I mean it's modeled and painted that way, but not according to the rulez.

I see a lot of assumptions in this thread. The rules do not have a default for the number of hands it takes to use a weapon. If it doesn't say, then we don't know except for pistols whose rules in the main rulebook makes it clear that they're single-handed.

The only weapons that have rules for one handed or two handed are Close combat weapons. Ranged weapons don't have rules for one handed or two handed (other than pistols) because it doesn't matter

Though this has become interesting because a burna is a gun that can be used in the assault phase that's not a pistol(it counts as a power weapon). One can assume that it counts as a one handed CCW when it is used in the assault since it doesn't explicitly describe it as a two handed weapon. Though since burna boyz don't have any CCW options besides just using their burnas it really isn't important how they categorize it.

VoxDei wrote:The only weapons that have rules for one handed or two handed are Close combat weapons. Ranged weapons don't have rules for one handed or two handed (other than pistols) because it doesn't matter

And how exactly did you come to that conclusion? Each and every codex that still has an Armoury has numerous ranged weapons listed as either single- or two-handed. It most definitely does matter how many hands it takes to use a weapon.

Ghaz wrote:

VoxDei wrote:The only weapons that have rules for one handed or two handed are Close combat weapons. Ranged weapons don't have rules for one handed or two handed (other than pistols) because it doesn't matter

And how exactly did you come to that conclusion? Each and every codex that still has an Armoury has numerous ranged weapons listed as either single- or two-handed. It most definitely does matter how many hands it takes to use a weapon.

Why? who cares how many hands it takes? There are no rules in the rule book that are affected by how many hands a ranged weapon is. Unless you have specific codex rules that require a distinction between one handed and two handed (which their might be and that would be stated in your codex so not really relivant in a general discussion) then it doesn't matter if it takes 2 hands or 4 hands to carry your weapon.

VoxDei wrote:There are no rules in the rule book that are affected by how many hands a ranged weapon is.

Page 37. Models still gain an attack bonus in close combat for having two single handed weapons, ranged or not.

Yep. As insaniak has pointed out that is the reason you need to know how many hands it takes to use a ranged weapon.