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So back when the new DE were released I picked up the release army box and was looking to expand on the army. They've been sitting in a closet for awhile so I figured I would pull them out and give them(and Fantasy) another whirl. I've put together a few lists that seem like they would be fun but I'm not sure as to whether or not they will be competitive at all.

Also, how does ASF work with Great Weapons? It overrides it right? Like the HE unit?

All and any input is appreciated.

Assassins Galore
LORD
Supreme Sorceress 1x - 340
Sacrificial Dagger(Sacrifice 1 model for 1 Power Dice), Cloak(+1 Power Dice), Familiar(6" range boost & out of CC), Tome(+1 spell), LVL4

HERO
Shadowblade 1x - 300

CORE
Corsair 30x - 350
Full Command, Banner of Frenzy

Assassin 1x - 126 (He will go with the Corsair Block)
HW, Killing Blow

Spearmen 20x - 155 (Sorceress goes here)
Full Command, Shield

Spearmen 20x - 155
Full Command, Shield

SPECIAL
Shades 10x - 180
GW, Repeater Bow

Assassin 1x - 126
Rending Stars(3x Multi, 12" S5), HW

Shades 10x - 180
GW, Repeater Bow

Assassin 1x - 126
Rending Stars(3x Multi, 12" S5), HW

RARE
Reaper Bolt 2x - 200

97 models
4x Assassins
2238 points

Morathi + Sorceressii
LORD
Morathi 1x - 590
Heart Render(Lance. Killing Blow), Black Staff(Bound D3+1 Power Dice), Crystal(Other Wizard forgets 1 spell if fails LD on 3D6)

HERO
Sorceress 1x - 175
Tome of Furion(+1 Spell), Sacrificial Dagger, LVL 2

Sorceress 1x - 130
Lifetaker(3x Multi @ 30" S4, always hits on 2+)

CORE
Corsair 25x - 300
Full Command, Banner of Frenzy

Spearmen 20x - 126 (LVL 2 goes here)
Banner

Crossbowmen 10x - 100

SPECIAL
Cold One 10x - 335
Full Command, Ring of Hotek (Miscasts on any double within 12" of bearer)

Black Guard 20x - 295
Full Command

RARE
Reaper Bolt 2x - 200

87 models
2251 points

Lokhir + Corsairs
LORD
Dread Lord 1x - 249
Chillblade(approx S3(Toughness test instead of wound) no armor save, if wound suffered can't attack), Pendant(reverse ward save), Blood Armor(Heavy armor, gains +1 for each kill), Shield, Sea Cloak

HERO
Lokhir 1x - 250

Master 1x - 250
Ring of Dark(Half WS against Character, Half BS against Unit), Battle Standard= Hydra(+1A all models in the First round), Cold One, Heavy Armore, Shield, Lance

Dragon Mount(Lord) 1x - 320

CORE
Corsair 20x - 250
Full Command Banner of Frenzy

Corsair 19x - 205 (Lokhir here)
Banner, Musician

Corsair 20x - 215
Banner, Musician

SPECIAL
Cold One 10x - 335
Full Command, Ring of Hotek

RARE
Hydra 1x - 175

70 models
2249 points

Monster Mash
LORD
Dread Lord 1x - 249
Chillblade, Pendant, Blood Armor, Shield, Sea Cloak

HERO
Master 1x - 290
Ring of Hotek, Piercer(Lance Killing Blow), Battle Standard= Nagaroth(Unit is Unbreakable, +1 Combat Res within 12"), HA, Shield, Sea Cloak
Manticore Mount(Master) 1x - 200

Dragon Mount(Lord) 1x - 320

Sorceress 1x - 175
Sacrificial Dagger, Tome of Furion, LVL 2

CORE
Corsair 30x - 350
Full Command, Banner of Frenzy

Spearmen 20x - 155
Full Command, Shield

Spearmen 20x - 155
Full Command, Shield

RARE
Hydra 1x - 175

Hydra 1x - 175

77 models
4x Monsters
2244 points

Malekith
LORD
Malekith 1x - 600

HERO
Dragon Mount(Malekith) 1x - 320

CORE
Corsair 30x - 350
Full Command, Banner of Frenzy

Dark Rider 10x - 170

Dark Rider 10x - 170

SPECIAL
Cold One 7x - 254
Full Command, Ring of Hotek

Black Guard 20x - 384
Kouran(Unit is Unbreakable), Banner= ASF
78 models
2248 points

First List:

You DO know that you can only give 1 arcane Item (barring common ones like scrolls) to a wizard right? A dagger, cloak, familiar, and tome on 1 character is 3 too many. Pick one and go with it.

Shadowblade is funny, but costs way too much. Run a normal assassin.

30 corsairs is WAY too many in a single block. They cost 10 points each, buying static res AND making them frenzy is not cost effective in the slightest.

Nothing wrong with the spearmen (I would go with just 1 unit), except maybe you shouldn't use a full block for sac bait. You don't want the block in combat anyways, so getting all the trimmings is a waste.

The regular assassin isn't good. KB isn't terrible, but not 25 points good. He does a better job if you give him rune of khaine and manbane.

Shades are fine, but did you know that the rending stars +manbane stack? Vs T5 they are S7. Also known as can pop a chariot, and hurt anything. Don't buy an extra hand weapon or great weapons for a unit that has a rending star assassin. His rending stars do a good enough job with the bows. Either go with CC shades, or ranged assassin shades.

Overall the Assassin list is pretty terrible. One wizard (whom is illegal) isn't going to impress. Corsairs aren't the greatest unit in the world, and they are being run in a very unoptimized way. Too many units are big for the sake of being big. Relying on 4-5 models to do all of the killing, when the size of the army will prevent you from concentrating isn't a good strategy.

Second List:

2250 is a limit, not a +/- range. 1 point is 1 more than you are allowed.

I am not a big fan of special characters. Not because they are cheese, but because they cost too much. Morathi costs much more than a supreme sorcerer on Dark Peg, even if you give the Sorcerer her full item allowance. Add in the fact you HAVE to spend points on CC options for a WIZARD, its not efficient in the least.

The non dagger sorcerer should probably ride a horse. So it can stay out of trouble, get into range, and move really fast. The dagger one is illegal. It is either the tome or the dagger, not both.

Corsairs: see above

A full block of 10 CoKs with full command isn't point effective. You pay too much for +1 combat resolution, which goes away with the first wound. 2 units of 6 with maybe a banner is better. It ends up being about the same price: 335 points vs 356. You end up without the ring, but since you are a magic list, you sure as hell don't want it. It works for both sides you know.

Black guard don't need to be this big. 12-14 with command is enough. they are subborn and ItP. They don't need full static resolution to do their job, which is to be an anvil and generate kills. Configure them like this: 14, full command, champ with crimson death, Magic banner ASF. These guys are buzzsaws vs normal units, run them 7 wide. They can hold up more elite units lone enough to flank them. Just watch out for shooting and you should be fine.

3rd list:

Your BSB is illegal. You cannot take magic items on a BSB with a magic banner.

The tyrant loadout is weak. A toughness test is terrible btw. Vs even elves it only wound 1/2 the time. You would rather have a weapon that is strong enough to wound on 2s, and modifies the armor save so much you really don't have one. (its called a lance) Blood armor is crap. The regen one is much better. Here is how you should run him: Black dragon, Lance, sea dragon cloak, shield, armor of eternal servitude, pendant, and maybe potion of strength. The potion allows you to pop chariots, and makes your dreadlord stronger after he charges. (assuming he doesn't kill it on the charge) You don't need it though.

The corsairs in this list actually aren't too bad. It is a fluffy list, so nothing wrong.

Cold ones: see above

hydra: take 2, don't look back or listen to the whines.

4th list:

Tyrant: see above
Master: illegal. see above. Chose if you want the banner or the items. Keep in mind that they rest of the army is going to be nowhere near this guy when he is working. Something about 20 inch movement not working with 5 inch movement. You can't delay the manticore either. He has no armor, so needs to work fast to get the job done.

Sorcerer is illegal. See above

Spear men are terrible in a monster list. They are too slow. Run dark riders. Screw static resolution. Monster lists are meant for killing/moving fast. Also take some harpies for march blocking/warmachine hunting.

Corsairs: see above

Hydras are great as is. 4 terror causing units, with 3 template attacks is just mean.

5th list:

its malekith on a black dragon. other than costing almost half your army, nother wrong with him. Is actually almost worth taking. Says something when the weak part of him is the dragon. He could use some help during the magic phase. An extra wizard with tome on a horse could be helpful.

Corsairs: see above

Dark riders: Don't run fast cav in units of 10. 5-6 w/ or w/o a musician is much better. And give them bows so they do something. You can't get ranks with them, so charge the flanks only. Also the bows give you turn 1 threat.

cold ones: 7 is an odd number. the 7th one is not going to fit in combat vs a res block. 6 is enough. Full command is a waste of points. Buy the banner for the +1 res, and leave the ring crutch for lists without wizards.

Black guard: Kouran is way too many points. Just take a champ with CD, the banner of ASF, and run them 6-7 wide. They are already ItP stubborn LD 9, the unbreakable is not needed.

some hydras and/or bolt throwers would be nice. The extra punch is needed in an elf list, whom bounce off T4 armies without them.


Overall I would say your monster list has the most potential. Getting rid of the static resolution blocks in favor of fast cav and fliers would both free up points, and be more effective. So in light of that here is an improved (IMHO) and legal list:

Dread Lord: Black dragon, armor of eternal servitude, pendant of khaeleth, potion of strength, Lance, shield, sea dragons cloak: 575 points
Master: manticore, Crimson death, ring of hotek, heavy armor, shield, sea dragons cloak.

4 units of 6 xbow dark riders with musician: 139 points each

3 units of 6 harpies: 66 points each

5 shades w/ assassin. Assassin has rending stars, mane bane, extra hand weapon. 231 points.

2x hydra 175 each.

The hydra is the slowest unit, barring the shades whom start in position hopefully. The army as a whole can out move just about anything, and is able to bring killing power to bear immediately. It is weak vs magic, so make sure you ring bearing manticore rider is doing its job. The shades are just a 80 point assassin hiding place. So he can start shooting his short range stars soon as possible. Dark riders are great units, and they will probably do more damage in a list like this because the monster will probably get most of the attention. They also fill up your core requirement nicely. The harpies are a great screen unit, can go war machine hunting, or just be 66 point table quarter grabbing units.

Thank you so much for the comments!
I had no idea every list was illegal... I only have the DE book on me not the BRB so I didn't know about the Arcane/Enchanted rule.
Looks like I have a lot of changes to make!

I made some changes from the input provided.
A lot of players in my gaming group do NOT enjoy playing against Special Characters so I have removed them in place of basic units.

Sorceressii & Assassins

LORD
Supreme Sorceress 1x - 330
Dagger, Black Staff, LVL4

HERO
Sorceress 1x- 165
Life Taker LVL 2

Sorceress 1x - 195
Tome of Furion, Dispell, Cold One, LVL 2

CORE
Corsair 20x - 250
Full Command, Banner of Frenzy

Assassin 2x - 292
Khaine, Manbane, HW

Spearmen 15x - 90

Spearmen 20x - 155
Full Command, Shield

Crossbowmen 10x - 100

SPECIAL
Shades 5x - 85
2x HW, Crossbow

Shades 5x - 85
2x HW, Crossbow

Assassin 2x - 302
Rending Stars, Manbane, HW

RARE
Reaper Bolt 2x - 200

84 models
2249 points
4x Assassin
3x Spell caster

Monster Mash - Revised
LORD
Dread Lord 1x - 256
Armor of Servitude(HA + Regen), Pendant(reverse ward), Potion(one use - +3 S), Shield, Sea Cloak, Lance

HERO
Master 1x - 119
Ring of Hotek, HA, Shield, Sea Cloak, Lance

Manticore 1x - 200

Dragon Mount(Lord) 1x - 320

CORE
Corsair 20x - 250
Full Command, Banner of Frenzy

Dark Rider 7x - 133
Bow

Dark Rider 7x - 133
Bow

Dark Rider 7x - 133
Bow

SPECIAL
Cold One 6x - 178
Banner

Cold One 6x - 178
Banner

RARE
Hydra 1x - 175

Hydra 1x - 175

59 models
2250 points
4x Monsters

The first list has a sorceress with black staff and dagger, you have to choose one or the other. You cannot have 2 non common arcane items on a single character. A sorceress on a cold one at least gets a save or some sort, but its probably not worth the loss of 2 inches of movement allowance and the added cost compared to the regular horse (and stupidity on a LD 8 model). Personally I like all of the wizards (excluding a sac dagger one) to be mounted on either a peg (for lord level) or a horse.

Other than the legality of the first wizard, both lists look like they can function well. There might be some point shaving here and there, but overall I don't see anything that would hurt either army. The first one in fact is just mean. Assuming you go with the sac dagger lord, she by her self could roll: 5 dice total from dagger, 4 dice generated from power of darkness, 4 for being a level 4, and 2 from the army pool. That is 15 dice rolled by one wizard. 13 of the dice on actual important spells (2 being used to generate more dice) Add in all the dice the other wizards could generate, you could easily end up in the 20+ casting dice realm.

Good grief! I swear I know how to read.

I actually have revised the first list a little bit but I'm not sure if I took it in the right direction or not.

To make the list legal I've left about 75pts off.

I'm not sure how much the Pegasus or Dark Mount are.

Sorceressii & Assassins

LORD
Supreme Sorceress 1x - 275
Dagger, LVL4

HERO
Sorceress 1x- 180
Tome of Furion, Life Taker LVL 2

Sorceress 1x - 160
Dispell, LVL 2

CORE
Corsair 20x - 250
Full Command, Banner of Frenzy

Assassin 1x - 146
Khaine, Manbane, HW

Spearmen 15x - 90

Crossbowmen 10x - 100

Crossbowmen 10x - 100

SPECIAL
Shades 5x - 85
2x HW, Crossbow

Shades 5x - 85
2x HW, Crossbow

Assassin 2x - 302
Rending Stars, Manbane, HW

RARE
Reaper Bolt 2x - 200
Reaper Bolt 2x - 200

74 models
2173 points
3x Assassin
3x Spell caster
4x Bolt Throwers

WOW ull be able to poor shots into your oppenants. Although i really only see three units deticated to CC. I prefer to run my shades in groups of 10-15 with great weapons, see thats more str 5 attacks going base to base. I do run my two assassins kited out in the same manner, touch of death for one of em though. Think about a death hag as your bsb.

how he is running the shades is fine if they are just places for assassins to hide. Great weapons are skipped because they are a small shooting unit, not a 1-2 turn charge unit. Dance of death isn't an ability. Dance of DOOM is a 5+ ward, touch of death is killing blow. Neither is worth the points IMHO. A death hag BSB is really only useful if you are going for a cheesy banner combo with a block unit. (like ASF corsairs or Executioners) Since this isn't a block hammer army, its not really needed.

As for the changes, I like how everything in the army except the corsairs has a ranged ability. In fact, the corsairs are probably the weakest unit in the list. I really don't get a champion in a unit without a hero to protect, and I don't get a musician in a frenzied kill the opponent with lots of attacks unit. You probably should run them 7 wide because each model you add to the frontage adds 3 attacks. 21 attacks in the front rank with hatred is sure to hurt most enemies. Buying extra ranks when you have to spend 50-70 points for each +1 isn't worth it. You don't put a wizard in a frenzied unit, because you end up in combat not able to cast much of your magic.

As for the cost of a pegasus or dark mount, its cost is in the Army book. If you can't find it on that, AB can help. Failing that Private Message me and I'll tell you. GW doesn't like when people point out the individual costs for each upgrade publicly.

Heh
I wasn't asking for the points, it was more I have a few spreadsheets for making lists and I didn't have access to the costs at hand.
The Pegasus mount is pretty expensive. If i was to run the sorceressii in this list with one what would you recommend?

I currently amended some points by realizing I could drop the Musician & Champ from the Corsairs as they will have a Frenzied Assassin with Khaine & Manbane. Going to run a block of 21, 3 deep.

I have about 10pts but I'm not sure about these builds

Supreme LVL 4 - 310
Dark Pegasus

Sorceress LVL 2 - 185
Dagger, Dispell (stands with Warrior block)

Sorceress LVL 2 - 192
Life Taker, Tome, Dark steed

I was thinking the Pegasus Supreme would be able to get into position easily for Casting but I wonder if she would be better if just equipped with the Dagger. I'm thinking if I give her the focus familiar her range would be insane, but that might be excessive.

The Dagger Sorceress is self explanatory.

The Sorceress on the Steed is a little worrisome as well. The original idea was to have her join a unit of crossbowmen and just shoot with them. now I'm not so sure.

any build suggestions for me?

The supreme sorceress probably needs a focus familiar. By flying around, she is likely to get shot/magiced to death. The FF allows her to hide on one side of a unit/terrain, and shoot magic from 6 inches away. As for the dark steed one, she can still get in a unit just like if she was on foot. I personally run mine either by its self screened from most of the enemy, or with a unit of dark riders. I personally don't like putting wizards in archer units. Some of the DE spells have 12-18 inch ranges, so rolling the wrong one would suck. Same with moving the archers to help her get spells off, it make them hit quite a bit less if they move (5s for long range, rapid fire, vs 6s for long range, moving, and rapid fire.)

Since you don't have dark riders in the list, a peg for the supreme with focus familiar would be best. The other wizards might as well stay on foot. The supreme sorcerer with sac dagger is great in theory, but when I've tried it, several of the spells weren't in range first turn, and 3rd turn it got chased by a cav unit. When its a lvl 2 wizard, you end up with half the power, but its still good enough. Worst comes to worst you still get chill wind off easily.

What about throwing both the Sorceress in the unit of Spearmen? Too many eggs in one basket?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well I think this version is going to be my final list.
Thanks for all the help. It was greatly appreciated.

Sorceressii & Assassins

LORD
Supreme LVL 4 - 360
Dark Pegasus, Familiar, Dispell

HERO
Sorceress LVL 2 - 175
Dagger, Tome (stands with Warrior block)

Sorceress LVL 2 - 165 (stands with Crossbowmen)
Life Taker

CORE
Corsair 21x - 245
Banner, Banner of Frenzy

Assassin 1x - 146
Khaine, Manbane, HW

Spearmen 14x - 84

Crossbowmen 10x - 100

Crossbowmen 10x - 100

SPECIAL
Shades 5x - 85
2x HW, Crossbow

Shades 5x - 85
2x HW, Crossbow

Assassin 2x - 302
Rending Stars, Manbane, HW

RARE
Reaper Bolt 2x - 200
Reaper Bolt 2x - 200

75 models
2248 points
3x Assassin
3x Spell caster
4x Bolt Throwers