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I've been looking at a lot of the other posts to try and come up with a competitive space marine list with Vulcan. This is what I have so far.

Vulcan (190)

Tactical Squad w/ Rhino (235)
- meltagun
- multi-melta
- powerfist

Tactical Squad w/Rhino (235)
- meltagun
- multi-melta
- powerfist

Tactical Squad w/Rhino (235)
- meltagun
- multi-melta
- powerfist

Land Speeder (70)
- heavy flamer
- multi-melta

Land Speeder (70)
- heavy flamer
- multi-melta

Land Speeder (70)
- heavy flamer
- multi-melta

Vindicator (115)

Vindicator (115)


Total: 1335

So I'm down quite a few points but I don't know what I should add in. I was thinking I could maybe add in some TH/SS termies with a redeemer or crusader but then I would have to remove a lot of other things to make room. I could also add in a couple more speeders. I can't really settle on an idea at this point and I want this to be competitive. Anyway, just let me know what you think.

Am I reading the SM codex wrong, or can you not equip a landspeeder with multi melta and heavy bolter???? If you are getting close to infantry, even squishy infantry, you are getting in range of small arms fire and assault, which can kill a speeder. Stay back, snipe at hordes etc, then use the speeder to contest an objective.

General Hobbs wrote:

Am I reading the SM codex wrong, or can you not equip a landspeeder with multi melta and heavy bolter???? If you are getting close to infantry, even squishy infantry, you are getting in range of small arms fire and assault, which can kill a speeder. Stay back, snipe at hordes etc, then use the speeder to contest an objective.

I could give the land speeder a heavy bolter but I want to take advantage of Vulcan's ability with the heavy flamer and multi-melta combo. Plus, everyone seems to be getting good results with it from what I've heard. I haven't tried it myself yet but I hope to have this new army up and built by next week. Anyway, Vulcan's ability is too good to pass up and I want to take advantage of every opportunity to use it.

But what I really need help on is what to do with the extra points...

I say replace the meltaguns with flamers, take out 1 land speeder take out 1 vindicator, put in a 5man team of Assault Terminators with TH/SS to walk with Vulkan.

Nice, its all about mobilility in 5th edition space marines, but what does Vulkan do, you seem to be using him for his powers, but ignoring his amazing CC potentional.

Seems pretty clear to me.

Drop the pfists and vindi's.

Add 5 assault termies w/th/ss in a lrc w/mm.

total is 1490pts. I would probably add either 2 melta bombs or 1 combi-weapon.

Xav wrote:Nice, its all about mobilility in 5th edition space marines, but what does Vulkan do, you seem to be using him for his powers, but ignoring his amazing CC potentional.

You're right, I need to put him in a squad. I will mostl likely try to squeeze in a th/ss termie squad for him to join. I just have to figure out what to remove.

imweasel wrote:Seems pretty clear to me.

Drop the pfists and vindi's.

Add 5 assault termies w/th/ss in a lrc w/mm.

total is 1490pts. I would probably add either 2 melta bombs or 1 combi-weapon.

Wouldn't dropping the vindi's destroy any chance I have against horde armies? Will the th/ss termies really be worth dropping two large blasts?

I have seen many other people do this but I just don't quite understand how it would face up against horde armies. I like the idea because I love termies but I just want to be sure they'll be worth it before I put out the money for them.

I've come up with two alternate list with the advice I've gotten on this forum and on another one.

List 1:

Vulcan (190)

Tactical Squad w/ Rhino (235)
- meltagun
- multi-melta
- powerfist

Tactical Squad w/Rhino (235)
- meltagun
- multi-melta
- powerfist

Tactical Squad w/Rhino (210)
- meltagun
- multi-melta

Land Speeder (70)
- heavy flamer
- multi-melta

Land Speeder (70)
- heavy flamer
- multi-melta

Land Speeder (70)
- heavy flamer
- multi-melta

Land Speeder (70)
- heavy flamer
- multi-melta

Vindicator (115)

Vindicator (115)

Vindicator (115)


Total: 1495


I basically just added another speeder and vindi. The problem with the above list is Vulcan still doesn't have a place to go. So an alternate list would be Vulcan with some th/ss termies in a lrc or lrr.

List 2:

Vulcan (190)

Tactical Squad w/ Rhino (235)
- meltagun
- multi-melta
- powerfist

Tactical Squad w/Rhino (235)
- meltagun
- multi-melta
- powerfist

Tactical Squad w/Rhino (235)
- meltagun
- multi-melta
- powerfist

Land Speeder (70)
- heavy flamer
- multi-melta

Land Speeder (70)
- heavy flamer
- multi-melta

Terminators (200)
- thunderhammer
- storm shield

Land Raider Crusader (260)
- multi-melta

Total: 1495

Here I took out a speeder and both my vindi's in order to add in a lrc and termies. Would it be better to take a crusader or should I take a redeemer?


Anyway, let me know which one you guys will think will be more competitive.

Just a tought...

3x Tactical Squad Powerfists (which I think is bad as it encourages you to get out of your rhino, plus you have an assault of death squad now) is the same points as another Land Speeder.

Fearspect wrote:Just a tought...

3x Tactical Squad Powerfists (which I think is bad as it encourages you to get out of your rhino, plus you have an assault of death squad now) is the same points as another Land Speeder.

That is a very good point. I hadn't even thought of that. I just figured if my squad got in trouble against a mc or dread the powerfist would come in handy. But maybe another land speeder would be a better option so I could then have 3 total. Hmm......Something to think about....

I'll have to see what other feedback I get but you made a very good point. Thanks

Fearspect is correct. Drop the pfs and vindies. Add assault termies in lrc. I have no idea who mentioned that.

Ok, so here is my revised list.

Vulcan (190)

Tactical Squad w/ Rhino (210)
- meltagun
- multi-melta

Tactical Squad w/Rhino (210)
- meltagun
- multi-melta

Tactical Squad w/Rhino (210)
- meltagun
- multi-melta

Land Speeder (70)
- heavy flamer
- multi-melta

Land Speeder (70)
- heavy flamer
- multi-melta

Land Speeder (70)
- heavy flamer
- multi-melta

Terminators (200)
- thunderhammer
- storm shield

Land Raider Crusader (260)
- multi-melta

Total: 1490

Nice list. As a side note, if you truly fear horde, you could always dump the meltas for flamers.

That would give you 25pts left over from this current list.

You could also go for just 2 tactical squads, but that would depend on the missions.

imweasel wrote:Nice list. As a side note, if you truly fear horde, you could always dump the meltas for flamers.

That would give you 25pts left over from this current list.

You could also go for just 2 tactical squads, but that would depend on the missions.

If I got rid of one tac squad I could probably add in two dakka pred's. But as you said, that would only be wise for certain missions. Would that be a good trade off though? Two dakka pred's for one tac squad? It would sure help with horde control I think.

Or, you could Drop the LRC, and replace the Rhinos with Razorbacks, and give the SGT's Combi Meltas and T. Homers, and replace the tactical Meltas with flamers. Vulkan can ride in a RB with a combat Squad, and three TL HB's are worth at least one Dakka Pred.

I would say that if you are running a single Landraider in the list, you have to have either:

a) Vindicators; or

b) Dreadnaughts.

to have some target distractions for your opponent. If I saw a list with just one LRC and a bunch of rhinos, I don't think it is hard to guess where every single one of my shots are going first turn.

What would you drop fear? The speeders or a tac squad? Is vulkan even playable at 1500?

I guess one unit of troops and one landspeeder will cover those points. Keep the troops in their rhinos and (generally) in cover. If they focus your tactical squads you are laughing as you will be destroying large parts of their army with your other elements that he is ignoring each turn.

Just my take on it.

Well you could always drop a tac squad for 3 more hf/mm speeders!

Sorry it has taken me so long to respond. Yesterday my internet decided it didn't feel like working

Fearspect wrote:I would say that if you are running a single Landraider in the list, you have to have either:

a) Vindicators; or

b) Dreadnaughts.

to have some target distractions for your opponent. If I saw a list with just one LRC and a bunch of rhinos, I don't think it is hard to guess where every single one of my shots are going first turn.

I figured all the land speeders and rhino would be distraction enough. Plus if I added in a vindicator I could only fit one it with the remain points from removing a tac squad.

imweasel wrote:What would you drop fear? The speeders or a tac squad? Is vulkan even playable at 1500?

Did you mean drop first? I'd drop the tac first because the speeders are needed to remove enemy tanks. And they don't have point restraints on special characters anymore so Vulcan is playable at 1500 points.

Fearspect wrote:I guess one unit of troops and one landspeeder will cover those points. Keep the troops in their rhinos and (generally) in cover. If they focus your tactical squads you are laughing as you will be destroying large parts of their army with your other elements that he is ignoring each turn.

Just my take on it.

I figured no matter what they shoot at, if they focus too much on it then I will destroy them with the other parts of the army. At least that is what I was hoping for.

imweasel wrote:Well you could always drop a tac squad for 3 more hf/mm speeders!

Would that be worth it? I already own four speeders so would it be sensible to buy 2 more? Or should I go with two dakka pred (I already own one) or some mm dreads? I won't have enough points to drop pod the dreads though.

I think your last list is the most viable. The only thing I would change is dropping the Meltaguns for Flamers. Even against MEQs you'll find TL flamers to be exceptional for the 'free' special. With the extra points I would say either upgrade your LRC to have extra armor, or give a Tac Squad Sgt a PF. I'm a firm believer in PF on Marine sgts. I run a fairly similar lists, but I have 1 less Landspeeder, and a PF on all 3 Sgts. I think if you have points to spare then why not.

I realize that vulkan can be played at any point level, i was wondering if a vulkan list was feasible @ 1500. As for taking more speeders, dreads or preds, playtesting will only answer that. Mine showed speeders were it.

Rhinos will never be a distraction from a Land Raider. Neither are Land Speeders.

Many Speeders is another route I suppose (though they cost a lot in real dollars).

I would suggest making up an 'ideal' 'Ard Boyz sized list (2500 points), then making a 1500 point army out of elements of that.

imweasel wrote:I realize that vulkan can be played at any point level, i was wondering if a vulkan list was feasible @ 1500. As for taking more speeders, dreads or preds, playtesting will only answer that. Mine showed speeders were it.

I think it is definately feasible, if for whatever reason, I would play him at 1250pts. Under that you've probably tipped the scales on value vs. efficiency, but his Chapter Trait can go a long way if you are focusing on that. I think speeders are the way to go at 1500. At 1750 to 1850 add a dread (or even two), and a dakka pred. At 2000 I'm thinking it is viable to go with 2 Ass-termie squads with LRs, but at that point you're spending half your points on 4 units, but I would probably go for another tact squad, squading up 3 Landspeeders and leaving two to be independant. At 2500 who knows, I haven't played that size yet in 5th so I will be of no help.

As imweasel said, it's all about playtesting.

barlio wrote:I think your last list is the most viable. The only thing I would change is dropping the Meltaguns for Flamers. Even against MEQs you'll find TL flamers to be exceptional for the 'free' special. With the extra points I would say either upgrade your LRC to have extra armor, or give a Tac Squad Sgt a PF. I'm a firm believer in PF on Marine sgts. I run a fairly similar lists, but I have 1 less Landspeeder, and a PF on all 3 Sgts. I think if you have points to spare then why not.

I'll probably try a game with PF's on the Sgts and a game without them. I'll just have to playtest and see what works out the best. Of course extra armor could always come in handy and make the lrc even more annoying for my opponent.

imweasel wrote:I realize that vulkan can be played at any point level, i was wondering if a vulkan list was feasible @ 1500. As for taking more speeders, dreads or preds, playtesting will only answer that. Mine showed speeders were it.

I didn't mean to insult your intelligence...And I guess I'll just playtest using the last list I posted and see which I will need to be competitive. The only army I'm afraid to face with this sm setup is nidzilla and my friend happens to own one :(

Fearspect wrote:Rhinos will never be a distraction from a Land Raider. Neither are Land Speeders.

Many Speeders is another route I suppose (though they cost a lot in real dollars).

I would suggest making up an 'ideal' 'Ard Boyz sized list (2500 points), then making a 1500 point army out of elements of that.

That's a good idea about the 'Ard Boyz list. I hadn't thought of coming up with such a large force at the beginning. Dang, I don't even know what I would use in a force that big. Got any suggestions? I would assume maybe another lrc with more termies and then a few vindicators and maybe more speeders. But that's all I could think of.

If anything maybe bumping the Ass-termie squad up to seven and load them into a LRC with Vulkan. At 2500 I think a Librarian is essential, ymmv of course.

Just a rough list off the top of my head (with minimal point considerations):
Vulkan
Librarian- Psychic Powers: Null Zone, VoD
4 Tact squads in Rhinos (at least 2 with PF) if you are dealing with MCs then why not give all 4 sgts PF?
7 Ass-termies in LRC
2 Dreads (MM, HF)-No pods, if you're going to pod, then spam it
At least 4-5 Landspeeders
At least 1-2 Dakka Preds or Vindicators

Very rough, but you get the idea. Plenty of Melta and Flamers, then use your Hvy Support for killing troops.

Fearspect wrote:Rhinos will never be a distraction from a Land Raider. Neither are Land Speeders.

Many Speeders is another route I suppose (though they cost a lot in real dollars).

I would suggest making up an 'ideal' 'Ard Boyz sized list (2500 points), then making a 1500 point army out of elements of that.

You can usually find speeders on ebay for just under $20 US including shipping.

I'm actually trying to do the 'Ard Boyz list and shrink it down to 1500 pts, but it's not translating well. It's not even really downsizing to 2k very well.

At least I have lots of options now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

barlio wrote:If anything maybe bumping the Ass-termie squad up to seven and load them into a LRC with Vulkan. At 2500 I think a Librarian is essential, ymmv of course.

Just a rough list off the top of my head (with minimal point considerations):
Vulkan
Librarian- Psychic Powers: Null Zone, VoD
4 Tact squads in Rhinos (at least 2 with PF) if you are dealing with MCs then why not give all 4 sgts PF?
7 Ass-termies in LRC
2 Dreads (MM, HF)-No pods, if you're going to pod, then spam it
At least 4-5 Landspeeders
At least 1-2 Dakka Preds or Vindicators

Very rough, but you get the idea. Plenty of Melta and Flamers, then use your Hvy Support for killing troops.

I did some play testing at 2500pts for 'Ard Boyz and what follows is my opinionated results.

I find it unnecessary to give tac squads pf's to deal with mc's. Just shoot them with melta. I tried running 2 dreads but found them completely useless vs certain lists. I found in play testing that 4 tac squads were to many. Just take 3, hide them in rhinos, then hide the rhinos and start moving towards objectives on turn 4.

Take 2 termie squads in lrc's. You will not regret it.

I never did manage to play test vindi's or multiple dakka preds. Vindi's would probably work well in the local qualifier 'ard boyz missions, but I don't know about on 'regular' missions.

Landspeeders are amazing taken in numbers. I was suprised on how durable they are. Most folks just run out of armor before I run out of speeders.

barlio wrote:If anything maybe bumping the Ass-termie squad up to seven and load them into a LRC with Vulkan. At 2500 I think a Librarian is essential, ymmv of course.

Just a rough list off the top of my head (with minimal point considerations):
Vulkan
Librarian- Psychic Powers: Null Zone, VoD
4 Tact squads in Rhinos (at least 2 with PF) if you are dealing with MCs then why not give all 4 sgts PF?
7 Ass-termies in LRC
2 Dreads (MM, HF)-No pods, if you're going to pod, then spam it
At least 4-5 Landspeeders
At least 1-2 Dakka Preds or Vindicators

Very rough, but you get the idea. Plenty of Melta and Flamers, then use your Hvy Support for killing troops.

I had forgotten about the librarians, haha. Good idea. Thanks for the basic layout at 2500 points. I just couldn't even think that big all by myself

imweasel wrote:
You can usually find speeders on ebay for just under $20 US including shipping.

I'm actually trying to do the 'Ard Boyz list and shrink it down to 1500 pts, but it's not translating well. It's not even really downsizing to 2k very well.

At least I have lots of options now.

I did some play testing at 2500pts for 'Ard Boyz and what follows is my opinionated results.

I find it unnecessary to give tac squads pf's to deal with mc's. Just shoot them with melta. I tried running 2 dreads but found them completely useless vs certain lists. I found in play testing that 4 tac squads were to many. Just take 3, hide them in rhinos, then hide the rhinos and start moving towards objectives on turn 4.

Take 2 termie squads in lrc's. You will not regret it.

I never did manage to play test vindi's or multiple dakka preds. Vindi's would probably work well in the local qualifier 'ard boyz missions, but I don't know about on 'regular' missions.

Landspeeders are amazing taken in numbers. I was suprised on how durable they are. Most folks just run out of armor before I run out of speeders.

I guess I'll have to try out a lot of speeders and throw in some other armor. It is good to know that 4 tac squads isn't that great. I would have thought more troops equals better chance for victory but I guess that's not the case. Well so far I've gotten 4 speeders, 65 marines, and 5 rhinos. I understand I've got way too many marines but I did a trade with someone so I got some extra stuff with it. Anyway, I'll go out and buy the lrc and termies later this week and begin to construct the army. Let me know if you think of anything else you would like to add. Thanks for all your feedback.

I will be continuing to play test at 2500pts vs various lists (seer council eldar, orks and csm) as I am going to the regional for 'ard boyz.

Don't know how I will do, but I'm willing to get publicly humiliated.

My list atm:

HQ
Vulkan
Librarian in termie armor w/null zone/avenger or GoI (which apparently does not get any ranged weapons?)

Troop
2 x 10 man tac squad w/melta/mm/sarge w/chainsword/bp in rhino
1 x 10 man tac squad w/flamer/mm/sarge w/chainsword/bp in rhino

Fast Attack
2 x 3 landspeeder w/hf/mm
1 x 2 landspeeder w/hf/mm

Elite
1 x 6 man assault termie squad w/th/ss in lrc w/mm
1 x 6 man assault termie squad w/th/ss

Heavy Support
1 lrc w/mm

*edit* to change chainfist to chainsword. Power weapons are a waste on tac squads in this day and age.

Looks good except that I think you meant powerfists for the sarge, not chainfists. But thanks for posting it here so I could get a better idea of how a list that size should look. Let me know how you do.