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Hello Dakka!

Just played my...lets see...maybe fifth round of 40k, my marines and some tau against the imperial guard around 560 points.

Two questioned arose:


QUESTION ONE
Little diagram.

[Sentinel w/ PC](A)

[Stealth Suits](B)

[Guardsmen](A)

It was player A's shooting phase. He wanted his Sentinel to shoot at the StSuits and the guardsmen should shoot someone else. He wanted to do the PC shooting first. He now feared that the plasma blast of the sentinel might scatter away onto his guardsmen. If this would happen and guardsmen were killed, would that mean that the dead guys couldn't shoot anymore in the same shooting phase?

He argued that this would not be the case, because all shooting is supposed to happen at the same time, so that the guardsmen would be removed AFTER they would've done their shooting.

I'm not really sure about this one, what are your thoughts?


QUESTION TWO

Same IG player wanted to deep-strike stormtroopers. They were supposed to land behind a tac-combat-squad and some firewarriors. Now it was time to deploy his first model, around which the others would be deployed if it would not scatter. Alright.
Now the point is: He took his measuring tape and measured out where exactly his first model should be so that it would be surely in rapid-fire range, but as far away from the table edge as possible. Is this legal?
Next point is: The deep-strike scattered 5". His stormtroopers had this rule that they could reroll stuff like that if they want. However, he now measured from the new landing point to my marines to see if the troops would still be in rapid-fire range if they would land there. Is this legal? I'm quite sure that at least THIS part is not allowed.

Would really like to hear some opinions, as I'm quite new to the game and the tau player even newer.

Thanks!

Witzkatz wrote:It was player A's shooting phase. He wanted his Sentinel to shoot at the StSuits and the guardsmen should shoot someone else. He wanted to do the PC shooting first. He now feared that the plasma blast of the sentinel might scatter away onto his guardsmen. If this would happen and guardsmen were killed, would that mean that the dead guys couldn't shoot anymore in the same shooting phase?

You are right, they cannot shoot because they are dead.

QUESTION TWO

Same IG player wanted to deep-strike stormtroopers. They were supposed to land behind a tac-combat-squad and some firewarriors. Now it was time to deploy his first model, around which the others would be deployed if it would not scatter. Alright.
Now the point is: He took his measuring tape and measured out where exactly his first model should be so that it would be surely in rapid-fire range, but as far away from the table edge as possible. Is this legal?
Next point is: The deep-strike scattered 5". His stormtroopers had this rule that they could reroll stuff like that if they want. However, he now measured from the new landing point to my marines to see if the troops would still be in rapid-fire range if they would land there. Is this legal? I'm quite sure that at least THIS part is not allowed.

No, what he did was illegal. He cannot pre measure any ranges whatsoever. He has to place the model by eye without any measuring. Also, the reroll just means he can re-roll the scatter dice, he cannot pick a new location.

Shooting in 40k actually happens in order. The shooting player picks a unit, shoots with it, resolves hits, wounds, saves, and casualties, and then picks another unit. So if the Sentinel's Plasma Cannon shot scattered onto the unit of Guardsmen, there might be casualties that would be unable to shoot, not to mention the possibility of a Morale Check! (p.15 of the rulebook)

The rulebook nixes any measuring except when the rules explicitly say so (p.3 of the rulebook). But measuring where your Deep Strike troops are going to go is fine when you're just starting, and actually kind of wise so that you reduce the chance of a mishap by scattering off the table or into impassible terrain or whatnot (p.95 of the rulebook). Discuss with your opponent whether you're going to allow pre-measuring or not during the game. As you gain experience, you won't need to pre-measure as you'll get used to eyeballing the distances. A hint though: a 25mm base is about 1" across.

But when they re-roll the scatter dice, they go where they go, and you don't get to pre-measure any shooting that might happen when they arrive. Measuring for shooting happens after you declare a target in whichever shooting phase (p.15 of the rulebook).

Something I'd suggest is playing your next few games with the rulebook open, double-checking everything that you do in the game. It slows things down at the time, but the reward of learning the game inside and out is invaluable for speedy and accurate play later.

Quick answers:

Question 1: No, the guardsmen that were killed would not get to shoot. Tell him to read the shooting section. Select one unit, resolve firing, remove casualties. Select next unit to fire.

Question 2: [edited] beat to it. Are you sure you can pre-measure where the models will land? I thought you had to 'estimate' it. Hmm...

I'm sure someone else will provide fuller detail.

*double post*

Cruentus:

The rulebook says no pre-measuring unless called for, some people play it as measuring allowed, experienced players have been trained to eyeball distances. So yeah, I kind of fluffed that one, but I've edited for correction.

Thanks for the quick answer!

Question One: Okay, I thought something like that. However, it would be completely legal to resolve the guardsmen shooting first and do the PC-Sentinel later to avoid such risks, wouldn't it? (He did it that way after thinking about it )

Question Two: Okay, there seems to be a kind of disagreement about if he could measure something while picking the best striking location or not. I'm really not sure about that one and quotations or pages would be nice. That he could not pick a new location was clear to me and I think I would've become a bit angry if he said he could do that
(I told 'im two or three times at this occassion that he is not allowed to measure; one time he ignored it and one time he said "I am allowed" in a defiant way. Well, he is semi-new to the game too and doesn't own the rulebook, but however, I (as the keeper of the rulebook around here ) need to make it more clear to him that this kind of measurement is fething cheating and nothing less...)

Again, thanks for the answer.

Thanks
Witzkatz

Witzkatz:

See my post for rulebook references. P.15 for the order in which shooting is resolved. P.3 for pre-measuring, though I really do suggest you guys agree to pre-measure for a while before taking the rulers away (plus it removes the temptation to pre-measure by measuring when the rules call for it and using some units to find the range for other ones). P.95 is the Deep Strike rules.

Also, encourage your friend to sit down and read the book from end to end. If you make a photocopy of your, then you can lend your book to him while still have access to the rules.

Thanks for the references!

About pre-measuring a while before taking it away: Well, we played some rounds now and in my opinion it might be the best to not even start doing it this way, because getting away from it later might be even harder And you learn the best through mistakes, or something like that... However, I might propose it to my friends for the next round.

Witzkatz wrote: Well, he is semi-new to the game too and doesn't own the rulebook...

If he enjoys the game and wants to stick with it, the he needs to get a rule book a read it. Not having a rule book and not reading it is not an option in this game. (triple negative ftw)

You certainly can't mesure before shooting, unless you have targetters... I -think- Stormtroopers have targetters though (inquisitorial troopers have them but they can't deepstrike, so it might be different >.> )
However if the models aren't on the table, I'm pretty sure they can't use their targetters so it's still illegal to premesure range in order to decide where to deep strike.