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This came up in a recent game. I blew up a rhino with the fusion blaster on my piranha and then proceeded to pin the survivors with the carbines on the drones. My opponet called foul and said that a unit fires simultaneously and the drones shots would be resolved against the rhino and not against the survivors. As I recall the drones are a seperate unit since both the drones and the piranha count as a kp each. And I remember being able to shoot the fusion cannon and drones at seperate targets. Who's in the right?

The Drones fire as if Passengers, that is in the Tau Codex. You were correct.

dietrich wrote:The Drones fire as if Passengers, that is in the Tau Codex. You were correct.

Really? My codex says they fire as the vehicle. The disembark as passengers but they fire as the vehicle using their own BS. I agree with the opponent.

VoxDei wrote:

dietrich wrote:The Drones fire as if Passengers, that is in the Tau Codex. You were correct.

Really? My codex says they fire as the vehicle. The disembark as passengers but they fire as the vehicle using their own BS. I agree with the opponent.

So If I buy a transport as part of a squad It can fire at a different target than the squad?? What if the squad is disembarked?

VoxDei wrote:

dietrich wrote:The Drones fire as if Passengers, that is in the Tau Codex. You were correct.

Really? My codex says they fire as the vehicle. The disembark as passengers but they fire as the vehicle using their own BS. I agree with the opponent.

What I get for not looking at the codex. I thought it was the same as the Devilfish rules. Then, I would say the opponent was correct. If they fire as part of the vehicle, they're part of the vehicle. Guess it makes Target Locks worthwhile.

While attached, I assume. Once they are detached they are, for sure, a separate unit.

Regardless, the codex correctly addresses it (either way it is, it's in the codex). I think I've always fired my drones and piranhas together when embarked.

Furtherly regardless (), you probably should be detaching them anyway. They're more useful for screening shots, preventing charges against your piranhas, etc., than they are embarked on the piranha. (IMHO)

dietrich wrote:

VoxDei wrote:

dietrich wrote:The Drones fire as if Passengers, that is in the Tau Codex. You were correct.

Really? My codex says they fire as the vehicle. The disembark as passengers but they fire as the vehicle using their own BS. I agree with the opponent.

What I get for not looking at the codex. I thought it was the same as the Devilfish rules. Then, I would say the opponent was correct. If they fire as part of the vehicle, they're part of the vehicle. Guess it makes Target Locks worthwhile.

Same with devilfish. The rules for gundrones on vehicles is that they shoot as the vehicle using their own BS.

GW FAQ

Q. Can Gun Drones mounted on a vehicle still
fire if the vehicle is Shaken, Stunned, moved too
fast, or isn’t allowed to fire its weapons for any
other reason?
A. No, Gun Drones mounted on a vehicle may
only fire if the vehicle is allowed to fire at least
one weapon.

Not exactly what was asked, but from the context of this they are considered a as a gun on the vehicle with a seperate BS.

BlueDagger wrote:GW FAQ

Q. Can Gun Drones mounted on a vehicle still
fire if the vehicle is Shaken, Stunned, moved too
fast, or isn’t allowed to fire its weapons for any
other reason?
A. No, Gun Drones mounted on a vehicle may
only fire if the vehicle is allowed to fire at least
one weapon.

Not exactly what was asked, but from the context of this they are considered a as a gun on the vehicle with a seperate BS.

Ummmm....what you posted establishes nothing of the sort. It simply confirms that while mounted, Gun Drones fire as the vehicle does.

Che-Vito wrote:

BlueDagger wrote:GW FAQ

Q. Can Gun Drones mounted on a vehicle still
fire if the vehicle is Shaken, Stunned, moved too
fast, or isn’t allowed to fire its weapons for any
other reason?
A. No, Gun Drones mounted on a vehicle may
only fire if the vehicle is allowed to fire at least
one weapon.

Not exactly what was asked, but from the context of this they are considered a as a gun on the vehicle with a seperate BS.

Ummmm....what you posted establishes nothing of the sort. It simply confirms that while mounted, Gun Drones fire as the vehicle does.

OP "...then proceeded to pin the survivors with the carbines on the drones. My opponet called foul and said that a unit fires simultaneously "

That is exactly my point, the Gun Drone fires at the same time the vehicle does since they are as one for that round of shooting. Vehicles can't fire at a vehicle then fire another gun at the disembarked.

BlueDagger wrote:

Che-Vito wrote:

BlueDagger wrote:GW FAQ

Q. Can Gun Drones mounted on a vehicle still
fire if the vehicle is Shaken, Stunned, moved too
fast, or isn’t allowed to fire its weapons for any
other reason?
A. No, Gun Drones mounted on a vehicle may
only fire if the vehicle is allowed to fire at least
one weapon.

Not exactly what was asked, but from the context of this they are considered a as a gun on the vehicle with a seperate BS.

Ummmm....what you posted establishes nothing of the sort. It simply confirms that while mounted, Gun Drones fire as the vehicle does.

OP "...then proceeded to pin the survivors with the carbines on the drones. My opponet called foul and said that a unit fires simultaneously "

That is exactly my point, the Gun Drone fires at the same time the vehicle does since they are as one for that round of shooting. Vehicles can't fire at a vehicle then fire another gun at the disembarked.

Your statement that the Gun Drones fire with a separate BS is false. The FAQ quote is relevant, the following commentary on it...not so much.

Che-Vito wrote:

BlueDagger wrote:

Che-Vito wrote:

BlueDagger wrote:GW FAQ

Q. Can Gun Drones mounted on a vehicle still
fire if the vehicle is Shaken, Stunned, moved too
fast, or isn’t allowed to fire its weapons for any
other reason?
A. No, Gun Drones mounted on a vehicle may
only fire if the vehicle is allowed to fire at least
one weapon.

Not exactly what was asked, but from the context of this they are considered a as a gun on the vehicle with a seperate BS.

Ummmm....what you posted establishes nothing of the sort. It simply confirms that while mounted, Gun Drones fire as the vehicle does.

OP "...then proceeded to pin the survivors with the carbines on the drones. My opponet called foul and said that a unit fires simultaneously "

That is exactly my point, the Gun Drone fires at the same time the vehicle does since they are as one for that round of shooting. Vehicles can't fire at a vehicle then fire another gun at the disembarked.

Your statement that the Gun Drones fire with a separate BS is false. The FAQ quote is relevant, the following commentary on it...not so much.

could you explain why? the Codex says they use their own BS which is separate from the the vehicle they are shooting as.

If i may try to steer the conversation. I think that it has been established that Gun drones when mounted up fire as a additional weapon of said vehicle. If this is so i think this becomes a discussion of weather different weapons on a tau vehicle can fire at separate targets. I direct you to pg 41 of the tau codex in the hammerhead entry 3rd paragraph, "Note that the burst cannons are not twin linked and can fire seperatly" at

This seem to indicate that different weapons can fire at different targets.

Does a target lock solve and/or avoid this whole issue

A target lock lets each weapon fire at a separate enemy. This would not enable the drones of a piranha to fire upon the passengers disembarking from a rhino the piranha just blew up. A target lock doesn't change the simultaneous nature of a unit's fire.

If the drones were passengers, they would be fully allowed to fire at the disembarked rhino passengers. As far as i'm aware, drones only count as passengers with regard to vehicle destroyed results and disembarking.

razorlead wrote:
This seem to indicate that different weapons can fire at different targets.

"fire separately" and "fire at different targets" are very different things. It simply means exactly what it says, the burst cannons are not twin-linked, and are resolved as separate weapons. Now, the tau do have ways of firing their weapons at different targets, but that is not what "may be fired separately means.

Ridcully wrote:A target lock lets each weapon fire at a separate enemy. This would not enable the drones of a piranha to fire upon the passengers disembarking from a rhino the piranha just blew up. A target lock doesn't change the simultaneous nature of a unit's fire.

If the drones were passengers, they would be fully allowed to fire at the disembarked rhino passengers. As far as i'm aware, drones only count as passengers with regard to vehicle destroyed results and disembarking.

Actually, they count as passengers for any vehicle damage result, it's a minor nitpick I suppose but it has effects on the game with regards to weapon destroyed and giving away kill points.