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2009/07/20 23:12:03
Subject: Shooting questions
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Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot
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So ive been having some difficullty finding exact rules on shooting units partially in cover.
1. there are two 5 man squads. In squad A 3 out of the 5 models are completely behind cover and cannot see squad B. But 2 models of squad A can see 3 of squad B models, and the other 2 models of squad B are completely behind cover. Who can shoot who cant? who gets cover saves who does?
2. Same scenario only 2 models of both squads can see 2 models of the opposite squad. Who can shoot who cant? who gets cover who doesnt?
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 Necrons 2000+
 Space Wolves 2,000+ |
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2009/07/20 23:18:54
Subject: Re:Shooting questions
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Infiltrating Broodlord
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Cover saves and Shooting are completely different.
Cover saves are granted if the majority of your models are behind cover or in area terrain. That means if you have 3/5 models in cover, the entire unit gets a cover save. If you have 2/5 models behind cover, none of them get a cover save.
Shooting is (almost) true line of sight. If a model can see another unit, he can shoot at it. If hes behind a wall or out of range, he may not.
So in situation 1: A has 3/5 in cover, B has 2/5, A gets cover, B doesnt. For shooting, the 2 models from A may shoot squad B.
Situation 2: Only 2 models from each squad may shoot each other. As for cover, you didnt specify, but if the other 3 are behind a wall, both sides get a cover save.
The thing you have to remember, and which i find incredibly stupid is, if only one of your models can see your opponents (even if its all of them), you may only shoot with that model, but your enemy who is shooting your one visible model may wound your entire squad (even though youll get a cover save).
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 Tyranids
 Chaos Space Marines
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2009/07/20 23:19:26
Subject: Shooting questions
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Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot
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mrwittwer wrote:So ive been having some difficullty finding exact rules on shooting units partially in cover.
1. there are two 5 man squads. In squad A 3 out of the 5 models are completely behind cover and cannot see squad B. But 2 models of squad A can see 3 of squad B models, and the other 2 models of squad B are completely behind cover. Who can shoot who cant? who gets cover saves who does?
Both A and B may shoot at each other. In squad A, only the two models that have visibility to squad B may shoot. In squad B, only the three models not completely behind cover (i.e., the three that can see members of squad A) may shoot.
Squad A gets a cover save, as 50% or more of it's models (three out of five) are at least partially obscured. Squad B does not get a cover save, as 50% or more of it's models (two out of five) are not at least partially obscured.
mrwittwer wrote:2. Same scenario only 2 models of both squads can see 2 models of the opposite squad. Who can shoot who cant? who gets cover who doesnt?
Both can shoot. Only models that can draw line of sight to at least one model that is within its range can actually fire. Assuming they have range, the two in each squad that can see at least one member in the opposing squad may fire. Both squads would get cover saves, as both have 50% or more (three out of five) at least partiallys obscured.
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2009/07/20 23:20:04
Subject: Shooting questions
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Death-Dealing Dark Angels Devastator
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Scenario 1: Only the 2 models in squad A that can see can fire. Since the majority of squad B is out of cover for them, they cannot use cover saves.
Scenario 2: Only the 2 models in squad A that can see can fire. Since the majority of squad B is in of cover for them, they can use cover saves.
I think this is pretty straightfowrd... Was there a specific rule that made you think otherwise?
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2009/07/20 23:21:34
Subject: Shooting questions
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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mrwittwer wrote:So ive been having some difficullty finding exact rules on shooting units partially in cover.
1. there are two 5 man squads. In squad A 3 out of the 5 models are completely behind cover and cannot see squad B. But 2 models of squad A can see 3 of squad B models, and the other 2 models of squad B are completely behind cover. Who can shoot who cant? who gets cover saves who does?
I'll number the individual members to make this a bit clearer. In Squad A, Models 1-3 cannot see at all so cannot shoot. Models 4&5 can see Models 1-3 of Squad B and therefore can shoot. Models which cannot be seen at all are discounted for determining coversaves. Since the shooting models (A4 and A5) can see squad B (B1-B3) Squad B does not get cover saves. Assuming the LOS is EXACTLY the same from B back to A, A will also not get coversaves since models A1-A3 cannot be seen and are discounted.
2. Same scenario only 2 models of both squads can see 2 models of the opposite squad. Who can shoot who cant? who gets cover who doesnt?
Again, models which cannot be seen at all are discounted for coversaves. Models which cannot see the target may not fire.
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Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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2009/07/20 23:53:39
Subject: Shooting questions
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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Lordhat wrote:Models which cannot be seen at all are discounted for determining coversaves.
This is incorrect.
Models from the target unit who can not be seen are considered in cover when determining whether the majority of the unit is in cover.
Rulebook, page 22: "Units partially in cover" ... last sentence of the first paragraph.
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2009/07/21 00:49:54
Subject: Shooting questions
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Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot
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Okay that makes it quite clear. I really dont know how this all came to be, but my friend (also opponent) seemed to think ruling was otherwise different and i wasnt exactly sure on the ruling myself.
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Necrons 2000+
Space Wolves 2,000+ |
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2009/07/21 02:07:24
Subject: Shooting questions
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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insaniak wrote:Lordhat wrote:Models which cannot be seen at all are discounted for determining coversaves.
This is incorrect.
Models from the target unit who can not be seen are considered in cover when determining whether the majority of the unit is in cover.
Rulebook, page 22: "Units partially in cover" ... last sentence of the first paragraph.
Serves me right for not doublechecking the rulebook 
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Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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2009/07/21 11:50:07
Subject: Re:Shooting questions
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Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus
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Night Lords wrote:The thing you have to remember, and which i find incredibly stupid is, if only one of your models can see your opponents (even if its all of them), you may only shoot with that model, but your enemy who is shooting your one visible model may wound your entire squad (even though youll get a cover save).
It may not make sense in terms of logic and true line of sight, but it makes perfect sense in terms of a game mechanic because the models getting shot at didn't get to move immediately before the shooting took place.
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Interceptor Drones can disembark at any point during the Sun Shark's move (even though models cannot normally disembark from Zooming Flyers).
-Jeremy Vetock, only man at Games Workshop who understands Zooming Flyers |
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