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Alright, this list was cobbled together as an anti-horde list but seems to pack enough punch to step-up to anything not Necron or Smurf. Even then I think it might do alright... Regardless, I wanted so advice on whether it may need to be streamlined or buffed up or what-not. So here's the list along with a basic explanation of why I included each unit:

HQ: Chaos Sorcerer - Doombolt, Jumppack

Wanted him mobile to support my main troops while not really engaging any enemy on his own.

Troop: 8 CSM

These are mainly to screen the Oblits and provide massed bolter fire to hold the flanks.

Troop: 8 CSM - Melta, Rhino w/Havoc Launcher

Again, mostly supporting the main assault troops while the Rhino wreaks Havoc... get it? Threw the Melta in there to give them a leg up in case some jack decided they looked tasty.

Elite: 8 Chosen - AspCh. 2xMeltas

A fairly cheap and effective infiltrating unit to block other infiltrators, assault vehicles and eliminate enemy big'uns.

Heavy: 8 Havocs - AspCh w/PwrFst, 4xFlamers, Rhino w/Havoc Launcher.

My main assault force. They should rip through hordes and be able to engage any light armour troops on the field. As they are to be my front line I outfitted the champ with a PF to keep the big'uns from slaughtering everyone else.

Heavy: 2 Obliterators

Obviously these guys can suit a range of needs to help against any unforseen problems that might arise.



It's my personal weakness that I gravely dislike being horribly outnumbered on the field of battle; I tend to play way too conservatively at that point. So I prefer larger troops units and other massed bodied units that put feet on the ground. I know this can lead to a crippling lack of specialized firepower but hey, it's me. That's why I could really use your comments and critiques.

HOWEVER, do not expect me to simply take what you say at face value. I've found more than one opponent quaking in his booties when he sees nearly 35 marines and such on the board at this point level and it's been a fairly effective psych tactic for me. So I'd also like some explanation as to why you'd change whatever you think needs to be changed. It'll help me out in the long run when I'm putting together other lists and thinking about my opponents.

Thanks in advance for bothering to read my 1 out of these 5 billion threads.

That sorceror....is he attached to anything? Otherwise he's just going to get sniped with a lascannon or something. That's a lot of wasted potential. Daemon Princes can use Doombolt too, and that gives you a good close combat unit as well. It'll also soak heavy weapon fire that would otherwise be devoted to your very meager number of transports, or even your oblits [which will fall easily to something like a 3xlas predator].

Your plan with the chosen is likely to end in disaster. They're up there by themselves, they suck in assault [well, ok, they're JUST as good as regular CSM in assault], particularly without any sort of power weapon. The aspiring champion - what's he there for? The extra attack? He doesn't add anymore leadership to the squad, so what's the point? The cool thing about chosen is carrying special weapons. Why carry only 2, the number a regular squad of marines could carry? Dropping 2 chosen, you would get 36 points back. Drop the AC too for 46 and do what? Bulk up that 8 man CSM squad and buy them a second meltagun to do their job better. Wasting 7 bolters for 1 melta shot is terrible. Wasting 8 for 2 isn't MUCH better, but considering only 2 can get out of a rhino to shoot while moving anyway, it's more bang for your buck from that unit.

The havoc squad is good. I like them, good anti-horde and nice charge afterwards. Have you considered an icon for them, such as khorne or undivided or Slaanesh?

Honestly if you like bodies, I'd drop the chosen. Your army can't support them properly, and they're by themselves. And for every 5 chosen you get another regular marine. It's not much, but hey. That squad of 8 marines with just bolters is really just useless. You're spending 120 points for what, a meatshield for your oblits? Just put the oblits in cover if it's that important to you. Dropping the chosen squad allows you to max out that squad to 10 men, give them 2 meltaguns, and then either put them in a rhino or buy a 3rd obliterator. Or use the points to buff up that HQ to the daemon prince. Probably you'd have enough to buy them that rhino and buff the sorceror to a prince with no problem. Drop the havoc launcher to give both rhinos combi-plasmaguns to help you thin out enemy terminator squads or weaken enemy monstrous creatures. At this points level there shouldn't be too many of those, so you should be clear to go. Knocking a carnifex down to 2 wounds and then charging it with a daemon prince is a fairly good way to handle one.

So let's see what we'd have....

HQ
Daemon Prince, Wings, Doombolt - ? [forget cost of doombolt....15? For a total of 145?]

Troops
10 CSM, 2 Meltaguns - 170

10 CSM, 2 Meltaguns, Rhino w/ Combi-plasmagun - 215

Heavy Support
8 Havocs, 4 Flamers, AC w/ PF, Rhino w/ Combi-plasmagun - 225

2 Obliterators - 150

Heck by my count, that's only 905 points. Buy a third obliterator and give the two rhino squads Icons of Chaos Glory, to max the list at 1000 points and now you can accurately deepstrike the oblits if you have to. I MIGHT drop 2 marines [and thusly their meltagun] from one of those CSM squads to buy them a rhino with an additional combi-bolter [if you think about it, that buys BACK the firepower of the two marines you lost, plus twin-linking] if nothing else but to keep that squad up with the rest of the army to make it an additional threat. I hate the idea of the points spent on a single melta shooting out of a rhino, but I think the protection afforded by the rhino, the reduncancy in unit support, and additional speed make up for it in the revamped list.

You seem to have a lot of units screening a single unit. If that havoc squad dies your battleplan is gone....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
that was directed at the OP

What about Vindicators, awesome against hordes!!

Vindicators really aren't all that awesome against hordes, unless they clump together unnecessarily. You'll hit what, 7? On a good clump 11? Roll a few 1's and you've already got a bad hit. If they're in cover [not hard to do] you've got a shot that kills maybe 4.

They're good at killing "hordes" of space marines. In a REAL horde, they're not that great. I use vindicators against hordes like orks or nids to do wounds to monstrous creatures, pop battle wagons, and do several wounds to elite units like tyranid warriors and nobs that will be a problem later. Let bolters and flamers thin out the horde.

Instead of a Vindicator why not just use a Defi? It won't kill Termies but has better range than a Vind allowing for better crowd control and you can customize it with Heavy Bolters, Havoc Launchers, Lascannons, or more arms!