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Ok, I'm fairly sure this is legit, but I'm asking anyways as it is a little cheesetastic for my tastes only because I try to play tactically, and while I can see tying up units like this is great in warhammer, it just seems a little weird for me. So about 2 weeks ago I was playing against an Ork Army with my Sisters. While I dont have a picture of it, I will try and explain by crude drawings in this post.... So this is how it started, with o's being my sisters and x's being the Orks......

I mean, the only thing I can find in the BRB is something stating that units must maintain unit cohesion, but is this seriously how they intended assaults to go? I know in the book it states close, but 12 inches is not close for an assault in 40K (not sure about FB lol). Anyways, it was greatly effective and my hat goes off to the player that pulled it off as it tied up both my squads so I could not at them after they slaughtered one of the squads. Anyways, thought I would ask if any of you have seen this tactic employed by you or against you.

s2

Horrible, I know, but this was the end product


Edit: I've deleted my crude forum text picture as I will have to come up with a picture and post it here, until then, I'll just say he chained his orks from one battle sisters squad to the other and they were about 12" apart....

Edit 2: added picture

Yes they can do this, but most of the models in the gap will not be able to attack. You must be within 2 inches of a Base to base model.

They can only do this if they follow all of the rules for charging units listed on page 34.

Which makes it actually quite hard to do. The Orks would only be able to move into the gap between units if they are physically unable to get into base contact with an enemy from the first unit, and also unable to get to within 2" of another Ork already in base to base.

Given that, in your 'diagram' the Orks appear to be moving past the first unit in order to create the chain, I can't see any way that this particular charge is legal. If they have sufficient movement to get that far past the first unit, they have sufficient movement to get into BtB, or to get within 2" of another Ork in BtB.


Edit: Ok, the example diagram changed. The situation as pictured is certainly legal, but again, relies on not breaking any of the conditions listed on page 34. So really depends on exactly where the Ork unit was when it began its charge.

Yeah, that text picture I had was pretty cruddy and did not show up correctly. Thats more what it looked like with some orks around the inside corners of my two units. Like I said, a really effective strategy that tied up my units as more of his orks assaulted my poor outnumbered sisters... lol

Theoretically, it is possible. But I am willing to bet money that it was not.

When following the rules, you move each model individually. And each model must follow the rules. It will be just about impossible to get the above result.

And if they did.... how did you lose? All the ones in the middle would not be able to attack.

I think the key part of the assault rule states something along the lines of "after the first model moves, each following model must end its move in coherency with a model that has already moved." At work, don't have my BGB with me, but its right in the section about assault moves. Seems like you can multicharge if the units are close enough, but you'd need a BIG unit to cross a 12" gap.

Inaniak is right...
Redwunz is right...

Refer to Assault rules.

The ork was probably not assaulting in a legal manner. It's like he moved all his orks forward at the same time, when he should have moved one guy first, then all others according to normal assault movement constraints, which would have prevented him from pulling that off.

Also you need to declare which unit assault which units, so what should have happened is Ork assault Sisters on the left (or right), move one ork to base contact, then move all other orks to base contact if possible, or within 2" if possible, or in coherency (in that order).

It's impossible that he would have moved in a straight line like this. Even if both sisters unit were at each end of some impassable terrain and only the closest ork was able to be in base contact, the ork player would've had to put some orks 2" from the closest sister model.

So... weirdest situation ever allowed this or illegal assault.

Typos are evil.

Redwunz wrote:I think the key part of the assault rule states something along the lines of "after the first model moves, each following model must end its move in coherency with a model that has already moved."

It's not actually quite that simple.

Successive models have to finish their move in coherency with already-moved squad members... but also in base to base with an enemy if at all possible. If that's not possible, they have to finish within 2" of a friendly model in base contact, if possible.

So the only way you could move a model out into the gap between the units is if they were too far away from the first enemy unit to get into base contact with any models from it.

Successive models could only continue the chain across the gap if they were too far away from their own models already in base contact with an enemy to move into coherency with them. If that's the case, then they can simply be moved into coherency with the model already out in the gap between units.

At work, don't have my BGB with me, but its right in the section about assault moves. Seems like you can multicharge if the units are close enough, but you'd need a BIG unit to cross a 12" gap.

You need a big unit, and they need to be positioned just right to make it happen. It's doable, but trickier than most people realise.

It was a nearly full 30 boyz squad. If I recall I may have lost a half a dozen or so, I honestly don't remember. Also if I recall, at first they were tanks that I was assaulting with units in them. If that matters at all. To be honest what I think I did was measured a 6" move from where my boyz were. found that the front left corner of the squad could hit the unit on the left, and the front right corner could hit the unit on the right, and then just stretched the rest of the boyz in between.


It wouldn't surprise me if I broke some rule or something. The guys we are learing from know the rules, but it seems like the week after we play, s2ua7 and I find all these rules that got played wrong, and how to actually play.

I had about a 6 or 7 orks in range to attack each tank. so another 10 -15 stretched out between the tanks.

crunch wrote:It was a nearly full 30 boyz squad. If I recall I may have lost a half a dozen or so, I honestly don't remember. Also if I recall, at first they were tanks that I was assaulting with units in them. If that matters at all.

Doesn't make any difference to how the models are moved, no.

To be honest what I think I did was measured a 6" move from where my boyz were. found that the front left corner of the squad could hit the unit on the left, and the front right corner could hit the unit on the right, and then just stretched the rest of the boyz in between.

So yes, that was illegal.

Just out of curiousity Insaniak, how is it illegal? I honestly thought it was a brilliant move as the rules only state that they have to be in unit coherancy. Thats where I got confused.

Again Crunch as when I spoke with you on the phone, it wasnt so much a "hey did this guy cheat" sort of post as I thought it was a smart move, it was more of a hey, "has anyone seen this done sorta thing..."

Each model has to move according to the assault move rules. The most important one is that the attacking model must stay in coherency with all the other models in their current position, even if they will move later.

In your case, when you declared your assault on the left unit of sisters, one ork can't split off and assault the right group, unless that would land the ork within 2" of another ork. You also cannot slowly chain out first, because if an attacking model can get in base to base or within 2" of another model it is required to do that instead.

I use this with my CSM all the time against IG gun lines, as the units are normally very close together!

It is fantastic against tanks + troops in multiple combats.

Step one) rip out the pistols against the troops
Step two) charge troops with most of your unit
Step three) charge the tank with your powerfist model (maintaining coherency).
Step four)....
Step five) Profit! (or, at best a tank thats gone down, and a unit that is still engaged in attack with troops, so it cant be fired on!).

So they need to be close, and you need to get as many units in as possible, but it comes up pretty often (particularly disembarked units).

Just be careful with the pistols. If you kill too many and they break, you can't assault anything.

Oh yeah, its not fool proof (troops run, and you are sitting under a nasty template of doom)!

Still, worth a shot. If thats a real risk, dont fire at all, or fire at the tank (presuming thats the real threat).

s2ua7 wrote:Just out of curiousity Insaniak, how is it illegal? I honestly thought it was a brilliant move as the rules only state that they have to be in unit coherancy. Thats where I got confused.

That's just it: As I already explained, the rules don't just say that they have to be in coherency.

It's all laid out on page 34.

Its totally doable.

You move the first model to the unit that you declared a charge on which has to be the closest model to the declared unit.

You can then move any other model in any order you wish declaring a multi assault in any order you want following the rules for charging (full 6 inch...contact with enemy if can...say in coherancy..ext...)

You then procede to criss cross with models from each unit so you declare assault on left side..then maybe have to move another on left..but pull him from at least 8 inches away so he's only within 2 inches of the one that assaulted left unit..

Then you move another on the right side into base contact with the sisters on right....

You keep going back and forth on each side until all models have assaulted and you'll end up with the result shown on the diagram.

Its very doable but I would not recommend doing this in a friendly game or even a tournament unless the other guy was a #$$ because its not very sportsmanlike and abusing the rules in a manner IMO they were not intended to be used.

insaniak wrote:

s2ua7 wrote:Just out of curiousity Insaniak, how is it illegal? I honestly thought it was a brilliant move as the rules only state that they have to be in unit coherancy. Thats where I got confused.

That's just it: As I already explained, the rules don't just say that they have to be in coherency.

It's all laid out on page 34.

Sorry man, I missed the post where you explained it. That was my bad.... It was late last night when I posted. After comming back to the thread, I noticed 2 or 3 after yours that I had missed last night.... Thanks again for the help guys, we will have to recreate this again this weekend to make sure that we/*I* am discribing this right.

s2

Mrdabba, once you attack the unit on the left, you *can't* just assault the unit on the right. You first need to build the 'bridge' all the way from left to right.
And you can only build the bridge if the attacking model is so far away that it can't get engaged with the left unit.

The proper way to execute a bridge tactic is as follows: (suggested for unit size 10+)

End your move in almost a line (maybe 2 files) towards the intended target. The line should try to point from one unit to another. The closest model should be 4-6 inches away from the target unit while being as close to any secondary targets as possible.

Declare assault, move closest to closest. Next move models that must move towards the assaulted unit in that direction, slowly bridging out. Once you get to models that are ~10 inches or more away from the unit you can start to bridge out from the ones already placed within 2" of a model in B2B. Move towards secondary targets as desired.

edit: According to the diagram up top, it would seem that in order to execute that assault the orks would have to move across horizontally from one side and declare the assault on the unit opposite to the side they entered from.

Dracos wrote:The proper way to execute a bridge tactic is as follows: (suggested for unit size 10+)

End your move in almost a line (maybe 2 files) towards the intended target. The line should try to point from one unit to another. The closest model should be 4-6 inches away from the target unit while being as close to any secondary targets as possible.

Declare assault, move closest to closest. Next move models that must move towards the assaulted unit in that direction, slowly bridging out. Once you get to models that are ~10 inches or more away from the unit you can start to bridge out from the ones already placed within 2" of a model in B2B. Move towards secondary targets as desired.

edit: According to the diagram up top, it would seem that in order to execute that assault the orks would have to move across horizontally from one side and declare the assault on the unit opposite to the side they entered from.

So this would really work with a 10 man squad... That would be tough... I think that IG (50 man infantry squad) and Orks have the bestchance at this.... So the key to this is to make sure that your figures would not be able to make it into assault range if that is how I am reading this correctly then. Otherwise, they would have to assault the unit the first assaulting figure moved into contact with correct?

Right, you want to leave most models out of range (if you want to make a bridge) so that their only restriction on movement is "within coherency" for the assault. If you leave them all too close then they will have to stand in B2B or within 2" of someone in B2B.

This is tactic is tougher to pull off the smaller the unit.