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ok this i need to know does a vet´s in valk list really work.

my list:

CCS
straken
LASPISTOLS FOR ALL!!!!!!!
astropath

vendetta

305


marbo

65


vet varient 1 -squad 1-
3x melta´s
shotguns
power fist

valk
MRP

245


vet varient 2 -squad 1 -
3 flamers
shotguns

valk
MRP

215


vet varient 2 -squad 2 -
3 flamers
shotguns

valk
MRP

215


vet varient 3 -squad 1 -
3 plasmaguns (OH YEAAAH!!!!)

vendetta

245


penal legion

valk
MRP

210

that rounds off as a nice GRAND TOTAL of :

1505

now i would like to know any weakness´es and how to strengthen them and how i could strengthen my list.

tactics are pretty obvious but i will DS my flamer squads behind enemy troops flame ´em then assualt surviver´s
my melta´s hit enemy die and rear armor whilst the valks take any armor left or enemy elites i.e. termi´s
my plasma´s then come in and rapid fire any surviving eltes. my CCS finds and kills any weak squads and my MRP destroy and troops on the flanks or squads that broke off from the main army.

comments and critisism please.

The penal legion squad doesn't make sense?

I don't think an air cav army would work well on the table. As sweet as it would be too field one, I really think too many valkyries are a point sink. Just my thoughts.

why doesn´t the penal legion make sense???????
and what do you mean by a point sink?

What is strakens purpose? I mean overall in the list of things he doesnt really seem to have one. Is he there to give furious charge to a 10 man unit of Guard?

I guess the penal legion is to outflank

This should be in the army list forum.

yep ill ask a mod to move it.

straken´s there to give the ccs a bit of a boost in close combat.

and the penal legion are gonna load up in a valk (or vendetta ((cant remember))) and deep strike then assault next turn.

ah it's a bit fragile, but what the hell if you like playing it go for it!

hmmm... i dont want 2 go and spend 50$ on conversion bits if it will die quickly. this army revolves around removing threats to my airforce ASAP so hopefully with a few well placed meltashots and no mishaps my men can survive for a while. and if it does go belly up i can easily re-embark and redeploy or use the INCOMING! order and cover to dig in and defend.

Melta vets in a Vendetta or Valk work really really well in almost any situation. However, IMHO they should be used strictly as a way to augment your army, NOT as the entire army in and of itself. In a 1500 point game, I say stick to two Vendettas with either melta or plasma vets (I prefer Melta since 5ed is a mechanized world). For 230 points you have 6 twin linked lascannons and the ability to carry some Melta-Vets if you have to pop a land raider or two.

I'm going to move to the army list forum.

-Read sig re Power Fists
-Drop the Penal Legion; it doesn't make sense army wise (as in it looks out of place) and probably won't work as well.
-How are your flyers going to operate in squadrons (you have more than FOC allows for them to go individually)

Instead of veterans...

Why not use Infantry platoons instead of expensive veterans. Also, penal legions ARE a good choice for valkyries/vendettas.

Why; are penal legionnaires gonna shoot? No. Can they? No. Are they cheap? Yes. Can they be effective in certain areas (CC mainly) Yes.

This will give you more points for more things, other than valkyries (or..aswell as valks)

Razerous wrote:Instead of veterans...

Why not use Infantry platoons instead of expensive veterans. Also, penal legions ARE a good choice for valkyries/vendettas.

Why; are penal legionnaires gonna shoot? No. Can they? No. Are they cheap? Yes. Can they be effective in certain areas (CC mainly) Yes.

This will give you more points for more things, other than valkyries (or..aswell as valks)

An Air-Cav army is restricted by the amount of available Valks \ Vends so you might as well go for the (ALOT) more efective choice and use Veterans instead of normal Platoons.

IMO Platoons are a bit useless in anything but a IG spam army (either foot spam or Chim spam).

I also advise in not using Penal Legionaires, they may be efective in CC (provided you are lucky enough with their "power" roll), but even if they get the right power to use in CC, you will need to keep their transport still for a full turn close to your opponent before they can disembark and assault something... Not to mention that since you are running your Valks in squadrons its squadron mate will also have to sit still to allow them to assault something... not good in an army that is supposed to rely on mobility...

How in the world is a 1500p aircav am going to feel shackled by th amount of VTOL allowed (max 9)? At higher point... sure, maybe. At lower points like this though, there likely won't be more than 6 VTOL in the list.

PhantomViper wrote:An Air-Cav army is restricted by the amount of available Valks \ Vends so you might as well go for the (ALOT) more efective choice and use Veterans instead of normal Platoons.

Why? Because the veterans are going to be shooting every turn with thier awesome BS and lots of awesome weapons, no. Veterans equipped well get expensive quickly, trying to fill up 6-9 valkyrie chassis well get costly. I mean, you dont even need to fill them all up but the penal legionnaires and Infantry squads are cheaper.

PhantomViper wrote:you will need to keep their transport still for a full turn close to your opponent before they can disembark and assault something... Not to mention that since you are running your Valks in squadrons its squadron mate will also have to sit still to allow them to assault something... not good in an army that is supposed to rely on mobility...

This is just not true.

Turn A; 24" movement - Grav-drop what-ever troops your fielding. (they are designed to do this, you know).

Turn B; unit that grav-dropped can now move+fire+assault at things while the valkyries can move off and fire. Either 6"/12" or complete another 24" flat-out move.

Now, those valkyries have been exposed to enemy fire but they have a SMF cover save aswell as requring 6's to be hit in CC.

hmmmm..... a clear split here.


second thoughts on the penal legion. i could drop them and get some support I.E. ratlings or other infiltrate warriors.


and i dont plan to grav-drop them. 1 mishap and i lose 100 points of guardsmen.


i am not such a fan of inf. platoons and only get one, even in my defensive army.


I may drop fists on second thoughts.


to counter the limited fast attack space's i will deploy my men in 3 main role's.

melta's in a valk (alone)

my flamer troops and penal legion (may drop) in valk's in a bulk

and my elite hunter's (plasma gun vet's and ccs) in another medium bulk.



and i am gonna keep the vet's. they are there to use heavy weps. and use heavy wep's they shall.


i may get some vet's to provide covering fire. I.E. wait until 3rd-4th turn before deploying in cover. they will have a heavy weapon.


i either want almost everything or completely nothing on the board at the start.

Penal legion have no place in aircav. They rarely have a place in guard in the first place....

I would swap one flamer squad for melta and probably run the other squads with melta or plasma and you could stick heavy flamers in them.

The main thing is to try and pack a lot of meltas and heavy flamers (flamers) etc. into an alphastrike XD.

There are some units in the guard codex that you should avoid the penal legion and rough riders. Sure they can hurt things in cc, but they cannot continue to do it throughout the course of the game. Vets are the best cargo for vendettas. You blast your opponent for the first two turns with the vendettas then when they get close unload all of the vets with melta guns.

melta vet's seem to be geting the vote's but what is i play an horde or an enemy with few vehicles?

Razerous wrote:

Why? Because the veterans are going to be shooting every turn with thier awesome BS and lots of awesome weapons, no. Veterans equipped well get expensive quickly, trying to fill up 6-9 valkyrie chassis well get costly. I mean, you dont even need to fill them all up but the penal legionnaires and Infantry squads are cheaper.

Cheaper: yes.

But is the diference in points that you save worth the loss of BS 4 and 2 special weapons (not even mentioning doctrines)? Frankly: no.

Air-cav is IMO a mobility and first strike type of army, you need to choose your targets and then pounce on them with massed firepower. I don't think you can achieve this with basic guardsmen.

Razerous wrote:
This is just not true.

Turn A; 24" movement - Grav-drop what-ever troops your fielding. (they are designed to do this, you know).

Turn B; unit that grav-dropped can now move+fire+assault at things while the valkyries can move off and fire. Either 6"/12" or complete another 24" flat-out move.

Now, those valkyries have been exposed to enemy fire but they have a SMF cover save aswell as requring 6's to be hit in CC.

So now, you are exposing both your valk AND the penal squad for a whole turn of enemy fire / assault... Not to mention that grav dropping is hazardous on the best of circunstances and again IMO should be reserved as a last resort option.

In what way is that better than:

Turn A: Valk does a 24" movement receiving the 4+ cover save and 6's to hit in CC.
Turn B: Penal squad disembarks, moves and assaults and Valk can go about its business.

Just look up my basic 1500pt AirCav list. That is pretty much the norm, from what I am seeing elsewhere. 2 CCS w/ Astros, 4 Vets w/ Meltas, 4 Valks w/ MRPs, 2 Vendettas.

Basic.

why 2 astropath's?

deadly chicken wrote:why 2 astropath's?

To mitigate the fact that he can't actually get the valks/vendettas onto the table in a timely fashion without them, as failing even 1 reserve roll out of the 4 he'd have to roll for a single squadron keeps the whole group from hitting the table.

And you get the "does it stack" rules debate; which is always fun!!!

Dronze wrote:
To mitigate the fact that he can't actually get the valks/vendettas onto the table in a timely fashion without them, as failing even 1 reserve roll out of the 4 he'd have to roll for a single squadron keeps the whole group from hitting the table.

What? Since when?

AFAIK if you have a Vendeta (or Valk) squadron that is transporting troops inside, you just make 1 reserve roll to see if they all come in play...

I guess that one needs a ruling, as it's not just a single element mounted up in a single squadron. I thought that was part of that whole entanglement hack that you could carry out by loading up 3x3 squadrons of valks with elements from 3 different Infantry platoons and end up needing to pass your reserve roll for each element involved... but that might just be me extrapolating information the wrong way.

Veterans are rather safe in Valkyries until they disembark.
I'd prefer Vendettas and Veterans in Chimeras.

Dronze wrote:I guess that one needs a ruling, as it's not just a single element mounted up in a single squadron. I thought that was part of that whole entanglement hack that you could carry out by loading up 3x3 squadrons of valks with elements from 3 different Infantry platoons and end up needing to pass your reserve roll for each element involved... but that might just be me extrapolating information the wrong way.

Found it, page 94 of the BRB, section "Preparing reserves":

"the player must specify if any transport vehicle in reserve is carrying any of the infantry units and/or independent characters in reserve. If they do, the unit and the transport will be rolled for toghether and will arrive toghether."

So, only 1 roll for squadrons + the units that they are carrying.

ok. that may be a problem if 1 unit arrives at 1 time.

concentrated gunfire.......

not good.........

deadly chicken wrote:ok. that may be a problem if 1 unit arrives at 1 time.

concentrated gunfire.......

not good.........

Eternally the risk of reserves... so you just have to play the list more aggressively and hope for the first turn.


More to the point, IIRC, don't valks have a scout move? You can bounce them up 24" before the first turn, drop their payload on an important target in the first turn without having to move the thing, and potentially deal an obscenely devasting blow to your opponent's line. Most transports are AV 12 or lower, so busting them shouldn't be much of an issue, especially when you go Scout move, Turn 1 vet drop, trash target A with the vets, target B with the valk(s), and then giggle maniacally... though you may be better off running 3 squadrons of 2 in this case, and maybe going for a Platoon for objective-based purposes.