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Hello all, I've been testing out the Space marine librarian with terminator and jump pack. He hasn't done much damage with the only time using vortex of doom, i currently use him with a land raider redeemer and 5 assault terminators equipped with th/ss. Could anyone make any suggestions with what combinations of physic powers to be used? im thinking vortex of doom and might of the ancients, i think i should keep on using this because - str 4 is not enough in close combat, so might of the ancients would increase it to 6 and help with assault against vehicles. and vortex of doom, well is just a good punch just before assaulting.

thanks for the help

Use Gate of Infinity with the terminators and get in the battle relly fast.

Im mainly a (newbie) Ork player, so excuse me if I get this piece of tactical advice mistaken but, I believe the idea of the SM Librarian is more as a support hero to lend strength to your units.
For example, Gate of Infinity allows the unit the Librarian is attached to to warp around the place, applying firepower where needed. I heard this was a common tactic to use in tandem with a squad of Sternguards.
Another is Nullzone, which forces the opponent to re-roll invul saves if Im not mistaken. I would imagine this is invaluable against certain units that only have invul saves, like Eldar Farseers and Warlocks.

He is a support character he doesnt really work well on his own but when he augments a squad he is awesome. one the best HQ choices.

Dont try and go combat with him its fail every time.

Go with for instance GOF or if you give him a jump pack give him avenger and tag him to a jump pack or bike squadron.

Vortex is an excellent choice with termnator armour as he can move and fire it.

The best though is Nullzone, forcing your opponents rerolls on invulnerables is a incredible ability and completely hoses some armies such as daemons ettc..

So i could keep him in the land raider with the other 5 terminators, when i disembark, i remove him from the squad to attack separate targets or go for weaker targets etc, and the 5 terminators hit the harder squad or just wait it out if and charge the squad if the terminator squad is having difficulties.

i just think, the librarian costs roughly 190 points i believe, why wouldn't you just get a special character with extra benefits or a chapter master.?

I guess nobody else noticed that you can't have both a jump pack and terminator armour?

A librarian can use null zone to really mess with enemy units. A unit of sternguard firing at Nightbringer after being hit with Null Zone almost guarantees it's going to die. Charging enemy terminators with your own after casting Null Zone also gives you a good chance of destroying them utterly.

Alternatively, use Gate of Infinity to teleport near the enemy and then cast Avenger to massacre enemy troops.

SM Librarians get way better psychic powers than Chaos Sorcerors (who really just have lash and maybe warptime). And theyre just as good in CC.

But I agree with the other guys, though i'm not really experienced with marines Librarians seem more supporty to me (with some epic attack powers at range too). Probly not a CC unit so much.

Best place for a SM Libby is safe inside the LR so he can spam Nullzone and screw up other pyskers with his Hood. Personally, I run mine with Terminator Armor/SS, Nullzone, and Avenger.

Ronin wrote:Im mainly a (newbie) Ork player, so excuse me if I get this piece of tactical advice mistaken but, I believe the idea of the SM Librarian is more as a support hero to lend strength to your units.
For example, Gate of Infinity allows the unit the Librarian is attached to to warp around the place, applying firepower where needed. I heard this was a common tactic to use in tandem with a squad of Sternguards.
Another is Nullzone, which forces the opponent to re-roll invul saves if Im not mistaken. I would imagine this is invaluable against certain units that only have invul saves, like Eldar Farseers and Warlocks.

Or Daemon ARMIES.

Hollismason wrote:

Vortex is an excellent choice with termnator armour as he can move and fire it.

Tell me that this means Chapter Masters in Termie armor can Orbital Bombardment on the move. PLEASE.

oddjustice wrote:

Hollismason wrote:

Vortex is an excellent choice with termnator armour as he can move and fire it.

Tell me that this means Chapter Masters in Termie armor can Orbital Bombardment on the move. PLEASE.

Actually no. It says specifically in the Orbital Bombardment entry they must stay still not because it's a heavy weapon but because they have to call it in.

And the only time I use a librarian personally is when a powergamer makes a challenge. the daemon killing unit is epistolary with terminator armor and storm shield with Null Zone and gate of infinity, supporting Lysander both with a squad of ten sternguard.

They are useful, but onfortunately they are specific army useful (at least to me).

-yay, first post!-

Gutteridge wrote:
i just think, the librarian costs roughly 190 points i believe, why wouldn't you just get a special character with extra benefits or a chapter master.?

I use the basic 100 point version, especially in smaller games, and I don't miss the extra toys at all.

Also the librarian is a good 100 point filler if you play at a place where people use both 1750 and 1850 armies regularly.

"SM Librarians get way better psychic powers than Chaos Sorcerors (who really just have lash and maybe warptime). And theyre just as good in CC."

Everything about this sentence is preposterous. It was, in fact, so wrong it dragged me into the thread to spotlight.

On the main topic, the Librarian is one of the more popular SM HQ's. He's a hundred point ld 10 psychic hood, can Gate your guys around in desperate situations and can nullzone or give a unit invulnerable saves.

I generally use him to drop pod in with a shooty force, use avenger and then whatever is left next turn gates out to regroup with the army.

Strimen wrote:I generally use him to drop pod in with a shooty force, use avenger and then whatever is left next turn gates out to regroup with the army.

This.

Although if he can run around and drop vortexes on guys in termie armor, he might be spearheading with my terminators from now on.

Smite is vary good too.

Spellbound wrote:A librarian can use null zone to really mess with enemy units. A unit of sternguard firing at Nightbringer after being hit with Null Zone almost guarantees it's going to die.

This combined with :

Strimen wrote:I generally use him to drop pod in with a shooty force, use avenger and then whatever is left next turn gates out to regroup with the army.

that. (except not avenger)


Oh boy oh boy, you guys made my day. How could something like this have slipped my mind.

I keep playing against this one necron dude who thinks his force is unstoppable, and we're all pretty new to the game and he's actually not too bad. This tactic might help abit, I'll have to try it Cheers

I've ran two Librarians w/ Term armour , Nullzone, Vortex on both with Stormshield.

I couple them with Sternguard squads.

10 Man unit of Sternguard w/ 6 combi Melta guns and a drop pod w/ a Librarian w/ Vortex.

With Correct Positioning you can combat Squad the sternguard into Seperate units and split the Librarian off so you can fire at seperate targets if needed. Its a alpha strike unit.

I sometimes place a powerfist with the sgt.

Its devastatingly effective.

STR 10 blast is not somthing many things shrug off.


Its usually not worth it to make the librarian a epistolary.

Gornall wrote:Best place for a SM Libby is safe inside the LR so he can spam Nullzone and screw up other pyskers with his Hood. Personally, I run mine with Terminator Armor/SS, Nullzone, and Avenger.

I'm torn between avenger and GoI. I wish I had the points for storm shield, but meh.

I agree with 40kenthusiast, Chaos sorcery is way better at the task of killing the enemy than Space Marine psychic powers.

Smite is nice, and hits harder than Doombolt, but the extra range and ability to combine with Warptime on Tzeentch-aligned Sorcerers gives Doombolt greater utility.

Force Dome is handy, and would be a great addition to the Chaos Space Marine powers if Sorcerers didn't have their own Invulnerable save without casting, and the Chaos Space Marines didn't have access to Icons of Tzeentch, which likewise require no cast, and act as teleport homers for Daemons, Terminators, and Obliterators, who all have their own integral Invulnerable saves.

Machine Curse...well it would be good if you didn't have to rely on hitting with the Librarian's BS4, the same as a stripling Aspiring Sorcerer... Full fledged Chaos Sorcerers have BS5 for their psychic shooting attacks, and Tzeentch-aligned Sorcerers can have Warptime for insurance purposes.

Avenger is a cheap Imperial knock-off of Wind of Chaos. Wind of Chaos is like pure warp poison, can glance AV12+ vehicles, completely ignores armour, and again combines nicely with Warptime.

Quickening would be good, but Space Marine Librarians really won't do much in close combat, not unless you combine it with Might of Ancients, but then you might as well invest in a real combat monster that doesn't rely on psychic powers working.

Nullzone is pretty cool, actually. It works with the integrated mutual-support thing that the Space Marine army has going on. Then again, I'd rather use Nurgle's Rot to kill everyone within 6" of my Chaos Sorcerer or Daemon Prince of Nurgle rather than hope I co-ordinate my units to deliver enhanced hurt.

The Gate of Infinity is also very cool. Frankly if I was a devotee of Chaos I'd avoid teleporting as much as I could too. Still, why go to the enemy, when you can have them come to you, and clump up for blasts and template, which is what the Gated unit will be unless they entirely waste the shooting phase spreading out a bit.

As for Vortex of Doom, it lives up to its name. But the first time you see a Librarian head-pop like an Ork, you won't stop laughing for a week. You see, that's the thing about Chaos Sorcerers, they know better than to opening uncontrolled portals to the warp. Say what you will about the Bolt of Change (weak, short ranged, expensive), at least the Sorcerer won't explode, and he's more likely to hit what he's shooting at, especially if he's using Warptime.

Warptime even combines well with Plasma Pistols and Combi-Weapons to make the former a relatively safe weapon, and the latter much more reliable. Seriously, what can't you do when you can manipulate the very fabric of reality itself?

Well, you can't protect yourself with a Psychic Hood, but that's okay because you've already wrapped yourself in protective wards (looking at for #1!), and trained yourself to kill threats before they arise.

Another power worth mentioning if Gift of Chaos, which can be downright evil, especially with the proliferation of Eternal Warriors. While it's risky and difficult to pull off, thanks to a short range and awkward timing, particularly for Sorcerers of the non-Tzeentch variety, being able to cast it twice thanks to the Mark of Tzeentch makes it a mean power for "Hidden Gifts" such as Aspiring Sorcerers in units of Thousand Suns, and Ahriman himself can inflict it three times in a single turn!

In my gaming group a group of three Spawn raised in the same turn and in unit coherency counts as one unit of Spawn, but you don't have to produce Spawn and you really shouldn't unless you're playing objectives (in which case they're delightfully expendable), or you're winning by a much greater margin (for the sake of cruelty).

Finally, Chaos Sorcerers are not Fearless, which makes sense considering they're mortals (relatively speaking) who have a good idea of what awaits them after death, unlike the Fearless Chaos Lords who probably make a virtue of ignorance about the true nature of the Warp, while Space Marine Librarians have And They Shall Know No Fear, which is like Fearless but you have a chance to run away before being caught in No Retreat! However it's a simple matter of putting a Chaos Sorcerer with a Fearless unit, as Codex: Chaos Space Marines is rife with them. Spawn and Possessed are, in particular, handy units to place a Chaos Sorcerer with thanks to their qualities as bullet catchers and being without otherwise wasted shooting.

But back on topic, the salient difference between Librarians and Sorcerers is that Librarians support their brethren while Sorcerers need to be supported.

This means that the best powers that you can get for a Librarian are the indirect powers, like Gate of Infinity, Force Dome, and Null zone. Combining powers makes a Librarian a great deal more expensive, to the point where you might as well take Tigurius and benefit from the extra flexibility of powers (Machine Curse is useful it is isn't taking up space another power could) and enhanced reserve rolls. Make sure that you protect the Librarian well, and make sure he accompanies a unit/army that synergies with his powers.

If you want him to provide psychic defense, then giving him a Jump Pack or Bike to get him with 24" of enemy psyckers is handy, and giving him Force Dome will make the Bike Squad much tougher.

If you want him to enhance your combat and character killing, take Null Zone, which (as mentioned) will cause Daemon Players to twitch uncontrollably.

The best utility for Gate of Infinity comes from having lots of Locator Beacons on the field so your Librarian doesn't take a wrong left turn into impassable terrain (Drop Pods, Scout Bikers, etc). Make sure that he is accompanied by a nasty shooting one, and one that can shoot on the move because Deep Strike counts as moving. Sternguard are the popular option, but I'd go for Terminators with Assault Cannon(s) to benefit from their internal Iv5+ so you don't need to spend points on an Epistolary, or depend on passing your psychic test for Force Dome. Plus Terminators can put up a better fight if your opponent assaults the Librarian's unit. Plus a match set of Terminator Armour will make the Librarian much more survivable. Don't bother with a 30pt Storm Bolter though.

Thanks for the info guys, so - from what i understand, space marine librarians should be used as a support HQ slot, instead of leading the assault. so in my scenario, i wouldn't keep my librarian terminator with the assault terminators, i should branch off to help support other classes or should i just leave him by himself?

Much appreciated about all the positive feedback!

He's fine to put with a squad of terms just make sure to give him a SS.

He's also good because he gives the assault terms a shooting attack with Vortex which is great at blowing up transports so you can assault the unit inside or casting Nullzone if you are going up against something with a invulnerable.


Id lay him out thus

Nullzone, Vortex
SS 140 points.


edit:

Oh the vortex thing.

Terminator armour makes a model have the relentless special rule, that is what allows him to move and fire vortex or fire vortex and assault.

If you're sticking him with the Assault Terminators, given him Null Zone, because whatever is resistant to the Terminators will have an Invulnerable saving throw. His Psychic Hood will help to protect them from psychic nastiness.

Its why I like the vortex / nullzone combo. If your going against somethig like a Can mob or something similiar and it blows up transports real good.

The reason I like Vortex though would have to be because of its usefulness against Monoliths and Landraiders.

It gets +1 to the damage roll as its ap 1.

Ok, i used my librarian today in a 1,500 point army against tyranids, i moved up with my redeemer and disembarked, the terminators attacking the carnifex while the librarian used avenger and burned 10/12 of a gaunt unit cleaning them up in assault, i used GoI to teleport to the other side of the battle to roast more nid's, he copped a wound from perils of the warp (double 1, failed re-roll invul). So, all in all - the librarian was proved quite well... so thanks for all the tips and suggestions with the librarian!

40kenthusiast wrote:"SM Librarians get way better psychic powers than Chaos Sorcerors (who really just have lash and maybe warptime). And theyre just as good in CC."

Everything about this sentence is preposterous. It was, in fact, so wrong it dragged me into the thread to spotlight.

Sorry...Maybe I'm just jealous of stupid 5th Ed Codex.

But gate of infinity, vortex and smite are all pretty good you gotta admit even IF their BS is lower.