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I just wish to confirm somethings:

Since Grey knights maybe taken as allied units in a space marine army (I assume 5th ed):

1. if I field 2 grey knight squads as troops, if taken, in addition to the standard 2 troops choices of the parent marine list does that make my troop choices to 4 slots used, is this correct?
2. can they score? take table quarters? or objectives?
3. are they affected by space marine HQ special character rules? (if there where such rules to that effect like vulkans chapter tactic)
4. can they start the game deployed inside my own Heavy support Land Raiders? (of course following normal legal rules and restrictions of transports)
5. can I choose to take 1 or any of the ff: force allotments allowed? (meaning I can choose to just take 2 troops or 1 hq 1 troops or any combination thereof available?)
6. I was reading the armoury of the grey knights. why are there no pts cost listed on the armoury section? If I wanted to kit my Justicar what are the limitations?
7. Do I need opponents consent to field allied grey knights in my SM list? Or is this allowed per normal game rules?

Thanks a Lot!

1. Yes, they count towards your FOC
2. Yes, they are Troops and part of your army as normal
3. If the rules affect "the army" or similar then yes, they are affected.
4. Yes

the rest im not sure...

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. In general No
4. Yes
5. You need 1hq/2 Troops from the parent list. Your allies MUST be in addition to this.
6. Your justicars cannot take any aditional weapons, but he may take items from the wargear section providing the rules don't state otherwise.
7. Normal games they are totally permitted, some tournaments disallow them however.

Random Guy

I was wondering as well, are there any other restrictions in fielding other allied units in a SM army? Like can I use both grey knights and sisters as allies in the same SM force?
Thanks for the responses!

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. No, in order to gain chapter tactics, you must first have had combat tactics to exchange for it. Quoting Vulkans Chapter tactics entry "Chapter Tactics: If you include He'stan then all units in your army lose the Combat Tactics special rule. Instead, all thunder hammers in your army will count as master crafter, and all flamers, heavy flamer, meltaguns and multimeltas count as twin linked." They don't have Combat Tactics, so they can't exchange anything to gain the new ability.
4. Yes
5. You can take 0-1 HQ 0-1 Elite 0-2 Troops 0-1 Fast Attack, No Heavy Support
6. Prices are listed on page 16 of the DH codex, next to the names of each weapon.
7. Allowed per rules, Grey box on page 21 of the DH codex tell you what you can take and how many per army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Random Guy wrote:
6. Your justicars cannot take any aditional weapons, but he may take items from the wargear section providing the rules don't state otherwise.

Justicars can take any additional weapons or wargear for the prices listed on pg 16 of the DH codex.

"Character: The Justicar may be given any equipment allowed from the Daemonhunters Armoury. His Nemesis force weapon counts as a power weapon in addition to the usual strength bonus"

Quoted from page 29 of the DH codex under the Grey Knights troops section.

Although, I don't know why you'd ever want to give him anything different than his force weapon, he'd lose his +2 str.

Edit: After looking though the DH codex the only thing you could give him would be a power fist.

Kreedos wrote:1. Yes
2. Yes
3. No, in order to gain chapter tactics, you must first have had combat tactics to exchange for it. Quoting Vulkans Chapter tactics entry "Chapter Tactics: If you include He'stan then all units in your army lose the Combat Tactics special rule. Instead, all thunder hammers in your army will count as master crafter, and all flamers, heavy flamer, meltaguns and multimeltas count as twin linked." They don't have Combat Tactics, so they can't exchange anything to gain the new ability.
4. Yes
5. You can take 0-1 HQ 0-1 Elite 0-2 Troops 0-1 Fast Attack, No Heavy Support
6. Prices are listed on page 16 of the DH codex, next to the names of each weapon.
7. Allowed per rules, Grey box on page 21 of the DH codex tell you what you can take and how many per army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Random Guy wrote:
6. Your justicars cannot take any aditional weapons, but he may take items from the wargear section providing the rules don't state otherwise.

Justicars can take any additional weapons or wargear for the prices listed on pg 16 of the DH codex.

"Character: The Justicar may be given any equipment allowed from the Daemonhunters Armoury. His Nemesis force weapon counts as a power weapon in addition to the usual strength bonus"

Quoted from page 29 of the DH codex under the Grey Knights troops section.

Although, I don't know why you'd ever want to give him anything different than his force weapon, he'd lose his +2 str.

Edit: After looking though the DH codex the only thing you could give him would be a power fist.

Sorry, but that's incorrect. Check the top of the Armoury page where it specifically disallows Justicars from taking weapons from the Armoury.

Well F me running, you're right.

"Grey Knights in power armor may only choose items from the Wargear list, they are well trained in the blessed weaponry of their order and are forbidden to use lesser items." pg 16 last paragraph.

Kreedos wrote:
3. No, in order to gain chapter tactics, you must first have had combat tactics to exchange for it. Quoting Vulkans Chapter tactics entry "Chapter Tactics: If you include He'stan then all units in your army lose the Combat Tactics special rule. Instead, all thunder hammers in your army will count as master crafter, and all flamers, heavy flamer, meltaguns and multimeltas count as twin linked." They don't have Combat Tactics, so they can't exchange anything to gain the new ability.

This is incorrect: the "instead" does NOT require that you had Chapter Tactics to begin with. Any unit that had chapter tactics loses it, instead THE ARMY gains..... - it is clear that this includes vehicle mounted weapons as wel as any allied forces as they are part of the army.

Ghaz wrote:
3. No, in order to gain chapter tactics, you must first have had combat tactics to exchange for it. Quoting Vulkans Chapter tactics entry "Chapter Tactics: If you include He'stan then all units in your army lose the Combat Tactics special rule. Instead, all thunder hammers in your army will count as master crafter, and all flamers, heavy flamer, meltaguns and multimeltas count as twin linked." They don't have Combat Tactics, so they can't exchange anything to gain the new ability.

This ones gone round and round, but A'rd Boys and Adaptecon both allowed allies in a Vulkan army to use his rules as RAW does not REQUIRE chapter tactics.....it just says they lose them you cant link the losing and the gaining just because you want to, the language isnt there.

In a friendly I'd say its a no go, but if we're playing for money, I'd be inclined to argue...

R3con wrote:

Ghaz wrote:
3. No, in order to gain chapter tactics, you must first have had combat tactics to exchange for it. Quoting Vulkans Chapter tactics entry "Chapter Tactics: If you include He'stan then all units in your army lose the Combat Tactics special rule. Instead, all thunder hammers in your army will count as master crafter, and all flamers, heavy flamer, meltaguns and multimeltas count as twin linked." They don't have Combat Tactics, so they can't exchange anything to gain the new ability.

This ones gone round and round, but A'rd Boys and Adaptecon both allowed allies in a Vulkan army to use his rules as RAW does not REQUIRE chapter tactics.....it just says they lose them you cant link the losing and the gaining just because you want to, the language isnt there.

In a friendly I'd say its a no go, but if we're playing for money, I'd be inclined to argue...

I'd agree here, besides the fact I wouldn't allow Vulkan's special rule to extend to allies. It's clear that there's an exchange going on, and every other chapter master but him state there's an exchange. Vulkans entry says the same, only in a little different wording.

Instead of the word "Exchange" it uses the word "Instead". The word Instead, specifies an exchange, So like R3on said, you had to have had something to lose it, and exchange it for something else.

Most players won't succumb to this kind of RAW loophole nonsense. RAW shows there's an exchange taking place, but the way it's stated leaves a possibility that you can take his ability with Sisters, but it's not definate at all one way or the other. RAI clearly shows that there's an exchange that needs to take place because every other chapter master uses the word "Exchange." RAI takes over when RAW fails. In this situation it fails horribly. Just like deploying troops out of a valkyrie, RAI needs to take over and say what is intended to happen.

Also, good luck fielding him in a tourny, and having people agree with you if you think Sisters can share his twin linked ability.

Please check who you're quoting. I did not say that, Kreedos did.

Ghaz wrote:Please check who you're quoting. I did not say that, Kreedos did.

Dang Ghaz, I'm that bad of a guy?

Kreedos wrote:

Also, good luck fielding him in a tourny, and having people agree with you if you think Sisters can share his twin linked ability.

had pretty good luck fielding them at Adepticon actually....


your right sisters alone cannot as they cant take SM allies, but sisters input into a SM army are specifically covered in the following FAQ,

http://www.adepticon.org/files/INATFAQv2.1.pdf


sorry ghaz cut out the wrong quote tag



Edit,

Had good luck fielding them....not very good luck with them...

Kreedos wrote:

It's clear that there's an exchange going on, and every other chapter master but him state there's an exchange. Vulkans entry says the same, only in a little different wording.

This has ben debated over and over, but I disagree.

It's sort of moot anyway, as Grey Knights don't really have much access to melta or flamers.

gaylord500 wrote:It's sort of moot anyway, as Grey Knights don't really have much access to melta or flamers.

I believe the debate applies more to Sisters of Battle allies, as re-roll to wound rending flamers make people nervous.

kadun wrote:

gaylord500 wrote:It's sort of moot anyway, as Grey Knights don't really have much access to melta or flamers.

I believe the debate applies more to Sisters of Battle allies, as re-roll to wound rending flamers make people nervous.

But GK termies can swap their weaponry for Thunderhammers and Stormshields for free... And that's certainly it's own sort of scary.

Less scary though in that they use their own special, inferior storm shields...