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Question for you.... And I thought I had a good handle on it because of how it's written but browsing various websites and sections of IG forums has made me confuzed....

Page 30 of the IG codex regarding the order "Bring it down!" the RAW seems pretty clear to me:

"If the order is successfully issued, chose one enemy vehicle (or unit of vehicles) or monstrous creature (or unit of monstrous creatures) visible to the officer. The ordered unit immediately shoots at the nominated target, counting their weapons as twin-linked."

However, reading on the board (as well as the wording in Army Builder) leads me to believe that this order can be used on anything not just Vehicles and Monstrous Creatures as the RAW leads me to believe. Is there somewhere offical a change to this rule...? Because people have been saying this is the most useful of the orders... I would agree if you could use it on ANYTHING.... but the RAW just doesn't support that.

wow your right they've got that very wrong.
If its not a vehicle or a MC (or unit of the afore mentioned) then you can't count it as TL.

That said you can cheat this rule slightly for example if you target a vehicle/MC any flamers that fired will still count as TL even if they can reach other models (flamers are an odd weapon like that)

Blasts can be place so that another unit is hit as well as the Tank/MC (TL stops it scattering off).

Other then that you can't use to target any thing else.

Tri wrote:That said you can cheat this rule slightly for example if you target a vehicle/MC any flamers that fired will still count as TL even if they can't reach (flamers are an odd weapon like that)

No. A template that can not cover any models in the target unit misses automatically and thus can not cause any wounds.

Army builder is wrong on a lot of things, rules, and point values.

For instance, Army builder states that Celestians have preferred enemy, when they don't even have that ability, their ability, although similar to 3rd edition's preferred enemy, is called holy hatred.

I know there's some point values off as well, I just can't think of the few I know off hand at the moment.

So I interpreted this one right... Good to know... I can read XD


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Next question... what about a squad that is 1 MC and many regular infantray units... by my reading... they ALL need to be MCs or Vehicles....

You're thinking of a hive tyrant aren't you...

The HT can't be picked out as an MC, therefore you aren't targetting a "unit of MCs" at all, you are targetting a standard unit.

Ghaz wrote:

Tri wrote:That said you can cheat this rule slightly for example if you target a vehicle/MC any flamers that fired will still count as TL even if they can't reach (flamers are an odd weapon like that)

No. A template that can not cover any models in the target unit misses automatically and thus can not cause any wounds.

bah words missing typing fail ... That said you can cheat this rule slightly for example if you target a vehicle/MC any flamers that fired will still count as TL even if they can reach other models (flamers are an odd weapon like that)

(I knew what I meant >_< .)

nosferatu1001 wrote:You're thinking of a hive tyrant aren't you...

The HT can't be picked out as an MC, therefore you aren't targetting a "unit of MCs" at all, you are targetting a standard unit.

In fact I was thinking about Chaos Daemons and a special character that's an MC that he usually attaches to a regular squad. So same Idea not the same context tho XD


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Tri wrote:

Ghaz wrote:

Tri wrote:That said you can cheat this rule slightly for example if you target a vehicle/MC any flamers that fired will still count as TL even if they can't reach (flamers are an odd weapon like that)

No. A template that can not cover any models in the target unit misses automatically and thus can not cause any wounds.

bah words missing typing fail ... That said you can cheat this rule slightly for example if you target a vehicle/MC any flamers that fired will still count as TL even if they can reach other models (flamers are an odd weapon like that)

(I knew what I meant >_< .)

Yeah i see what you're getting at. If they end up hitting other models ALSO with the MC or vehicle i'm targeting at.


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Thank you problem solved. I was playing it right.

ZeroOP wrote:
In fact I was thinking about Chaos Daemons and a special character that's an MC that he usually attaches to a regular squad. So same Idea not the same context tho XD

You can't join MCs to squads

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:You can't join MCs to squads

You can if they are Independent Characters.

If an MC is attached to a unit of non MC models the MC can still be picked out as a single target for shooting, unless the unit has special rules saying something different.

So I think the only time a partially MC unit would be an issue is with the Hive Tyrant, and in that situation I don't think you could use the order since the whole target unit is not Monstrous Creatures.

ZeroOP wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:You're thinking of a hive tyrant aren't you...

In fact I was thinking about Chaos Daemons and a special character that's an MC that he usually attaches to a regular squad.

Which one would that be? I've failed to find anyone with both MC and IC in ArmyBuilder, but then again it is just a program. The one guy in our group that plays daemons lives a bit too far away that I'd go knocking on his door right now. ;-)

As for "Bring it down" I think it's pretty useful. Vehicles have been made tougher in 5th so the ability to hit them more often is a nice bonus.

I have no idea what the name is. I just know it's a Chaos Daemon MC IC... XD He stopped playing with it in small point armies, so i haven't seen it in a while....

There is no Chaos Daemon Monstrous Creature with the Independent Character rule. They have Independent Characters, and Monstrous Creatures, but no model has both special rules.

You got cheated.

but can you use dis on heavy weapon squads cuz if you an only use it on IS's whats the point of using it on tanks with S3 weapons



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I fink dere is a mc deamon he's a special character i cant remember his name

However, there is the Necron Lord/Tomb Spider combo. Lord can join the spider as the spider is not always a unit of only one model (due to the scarabs it can produce). SO there's your IC/MC unit for discussion.
And I'm not sure that the "may always pick out a MC" rule still exists. Took a quick look for it just now and didn't find it. Reference please?

What if you TL a blast weapon (MoO) at a vehicle or MC and it scatters onto infantry? Would you still count it as TL?

madmen wrote:What if you TL a blast weapon (MoO) at a vehicle or MC and it scatters onto infantry? Would you still count it as TL?

Of course - a TL blast just means you can reroll the scatter. I'd be a bit cross if you didn't reroll in order to hit the original target but you don't technically have to.

Spetulhu wrote:

madmen wrote:What if you TL a blast weapon (MoO) at a vehicle or MC and it scatters onto infantry? Would you still count it as TL?

Of course - a TL blast just means you can reroll the scatter. I'd be a bit cross if you didn't reroll in order to hit the original target but you don't technically have to.

You have to reroll a scatter using the original place you put it... or else it wouldn't be a re roll it would be a new shot. But yeah, twin linked as long as the target is vehicle or MC


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don_mondo wrote:However, there is the Necron Lord/Tomb Spider combo. Lord can join the spider as the spider is not always a unit of only one model (due to the scarabs it can produce). SO there's your IC/MC unit for discussion.
And I'm not sure that the "may always pick out a MC" rule still exists. Took a quick look for it just now and didn't find it. Reference please?

Yeah i was looking for it last night and didn't see it. :( about the always pick out an MC rule, that is. Regarding i think all the models in the unit must be either MCs or Vehicles.


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MinMax wrote:There is no Chaos Daemon Monstrous Creature with the Independent Character rule. They have Independent Characters, and Monstrous Creatures, but no model has both special rules.

You got cheated.

Good to know, I just looked it up it was a Bloodthurster... So if it's not IC in unit type it CANNOT join a squad, correct?

Correct, if it's not an IC it cannot join another unit.