Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Alright. So we've all agreed that a way to get around the Master of Ordnance (MoO) scattering is to put a mortar in the command squad and put it closer to the enemy so that it fires first and then the MoO's ordnance lands on or around that point. Now on to the question:

-If the command squad is in a chimera and using the firing points from it then which unit counts as being closest? Would I get to choose or is there a set precedent somewhere else in the Rulebook that I haven't found?

GO!

they are equally distant since you are measuring to the same location for either one, the rules don't cover this, I would say the player gets to pick which one fires first.

Also just a note, I get the feeling there was far from a concensus regarding how the MOO with a mortar in his unit operates, so be ready for disputes if you use this.

Hulksmash wrote:Alright. So we've all agreed that a way to get around the Master of Ordnance (MoO) scattering is to put a mortar in the command squad and put it closer to the enemy so that it fires first and then the MoO's ordnance lands on or around that point.

Source of this ??

It is a RAW ruling and I would only use it in Ard Boyz but that doesn't make it any less valid.

I can't quote the rulebook as it's in my car and I don't wanna head out there right now but i read it today and....

It states under multible barrage weapons how they work. The closest barrage weapont to the targeted unit fires first. Work out as normal. Then roll a scatter die for the second shot. If it is an arrow place the template on the edge of the first shot in the direction of the arrow (there is a picture) and if you roll a hit you may place the second template in anywhere touching the first.

It's something most people i've spoken to fully expect to see FAQ'd (inlcuding myself) but that is how it currently reads.

I don't think there's any way to resolve it by RAW.

Except for a dice off, I suppose.

Hulksmash wrote:It is a RAW ruling and I would only use it in Ard Boyz but that doesn't make it any less valid.

I can't quote the rulebook as it's in my car and I don't wanna head out there right now but i read it today and....

It states under multible barrage weapons how they work. The closest barrage weapont to the targeted unit fires first. Work out as normal. Then roll a scatter die for the second shot. If it is an arrow place the template on the edge of the first shot in the direction of the arrow (there is a picture) and if you roll a hit you may place the second template in anywhere touching the first.

It's something most people i've spoken to fully expect to see FAQ'd (inlcuding myself) but that is how it currently reads.

The problem is the RAW isn't clear cut because it's difficult to say just how much of the normal scatter rules the MOO's unique scatter rules override. It could be that even in a multiple barrage his own scatter rules take precedence given they are the more specific rule, or his scatter rules could be considered to only override the normal scatter rules for a barrage weapon meaning multiple barrages are still resolved as normal. There are two equally valid RAW readings, so it's going to be a point of contention.

I don't see two readings. I see two different rules. One is the standard rule that the MoO has for scattering when fired which is a modified barrage rule. The other would be the rule for multiple barrage weapons in a squad.

Hulksmash wrote:I don't see two readings. I see two different rules. One is the standard rule that the MoO has for scattering when fired which is a modified barrage rule. The other would be the rule for multiple barrage weapons in a squad.

well that's no surprise, take any of the arguments that have divided the community at some point and ask a single person he will tell you there's only one valid way to rule it. But there's no way to know for sure where the MOO's special rules for scatter stop working, it just says "If a hit is rolled do x, If an arrow is rolled do y" but there's no context surrounding it, you can safely assume it applies to when rolling to hit with his weapon, but when rolling to hit with his weapon for a multiple barrage, he is still rolling hits and arrows, and has a special rule that tells you how to handle it.

I'm not saying this reading I am suggesting is more correct, just that it's an equally valid way to put the rules together and that RAW is unclear.

so.. bout that IG FAQ..

I'd like to disagree with the OP and state that not everyone has agreed that Master of Ordnance doesn't apply in the multiple barrage situation.

The Master of Ordance weapon has a special rule which states 'If an arrow is rolled ... If a hit is rolled ..." Since both regular barrage and multiple barrage shooting can satisfy that condition, then the rule still applies to override that portion of the marker placement. The multiple barrage rules determine which weapon's large blast is placed down first, and if it's the MoO's shot then the extra scatter rule is going to effect that first blast and the other barrage shots will land as normal. If the MoO's shot is not the first, then his shot is going to scatter away from the first blast instead of being placed next to it.

Edit: It turns out that I agree partially with Drunkspleen, too.

Hulksmash wrote:Alright. So we've all agreed

No, we're not all agreed..................... MoO special rules will always cause it to deviate.