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Okay interesting seanario happened during a game. IG player goes to fire his Russ at some Bloodcrushers wo are hidden behind a quite tall hill. I say he can't see them, but he says he can. We check Line of Sight and find he can only see the head of the Bloodletter riding atop the Bloodcrusher. He then quotes this from page 16 of the BGB, "Line of sight must be traced from the eyes of the firing model to any part of the body of at least one of the models in the target unit (for ‘body’ we mean its head, torso, legs and arms)."

So by that does the Bloodletter on top count as the models head, or what? I thought it wouldn't, but am unsure of what RAW says.

welcome to 5th edition TLOS if you can see it you can shoot it. regarless if its the head of the crusher or letter on it.

blast must be placed on what he can see though. and you get cover of course. no biggy since crushers can take the punishment.

Sorry, buddy. The bloodletter is clearly a part of the model and seeing him counts as seeing the bloodcrusher. The reason for the part in the parenthesis is simply to clarify that you can't shoot at protruding weapons or banners.

So if he can only see part of the head he can still shoot the whole model?

Solution - Headless Models! Tactical advantage, and potentially spooky!

Yes, as you shoot models not bits of models.

arinnoor wrote:So if he can only see part of the head he can still shoot the whole model?

Pretty much. In fact you're lucky he doesn't get a headshot bonus for D6 wounds!

If you can see the head how can that not count? It's a pretty important piece.

Similar question, came up in 'Ard Boyz first round.

I'm Mech Tau playing Biker Nobz

I Fish o Fury (basing Fish high enough to see under them)

I can clearly see the entire bike, but cannot however see any part of the Nob riding ontop of it.

Judge ruling, I can see something other than guns/banner, it is a vital part of the model, shooting tires out of vehicles is effective, I can see it.

However RAW state head, arm, leg, torso, but nothing about bikes... thoughts?

Where were the nobs legs? Shouldn't they have been straddling the bike?

Where did you get flight stands that tall?

The legs were straddling the bike but for some reason (I don't remember why) I could not see them. I think it was the positioning of the bike or something.

The flight stands are a simple hybrid of the stands provided with things like drones and gargoyles and the large clear bases of the Devilfish. These stands are about 2 inches tall while firewarriors only stand about 1 1/2 inches. Even with the landing gear feet, the models can still see quite clearly and if placed correctly won't even provide cover. IIRC the larger flight stands come with the devilfish stand sprue as well.

On the bike issue, I can't imagine anyone ruling the other way. But I'm pretty sure I recall something about a model's base being unable to block LOS to the model itself. I'd let them decide if the bike is a part of the base or a part of the model(if they really try to argue that a bike is an auxiliary bit for a bike model, you're dealing with the kind of person you might not want to spend much time around... maybe whatever they have is catching), and then either way I'd lay right into them with my astonishing BS2.