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So if my squad is in the upper floor of some ruins. And they occupy all of the ground on said floor. Does this mean they cannot be assaulted? Technically enemy models have no where to be placed and said models cannot be place in base to base contact.

I have always played it that you just assume they are. However I am wondering if there is anything official on this or how others play it.

Everyone I've played with it seems to agree that a model directly under where b2b contact would be can assault a model above it if there is no room on that level. I think we weakly used the wobbly model syndrome rule to justify this. We agree the model is really right on the edge climbing up to assault, but leave it on the ground because you can't hold it in mid air.

Its on page 85 of the BGB.

BGB, p85, Ruins and Assaults, 1st paragraph wrote:
That is to say, distances measured between the models on different levels are measured between the heads of the models on the lower level to the bases of the models on the upper levels (see page 82)

BGB, p85, Ruins and Assaults, 2nd paragraph wrote:
When this happens, it is perfectly acceptable to place models as close to their foe as is safely possible, including the level below or above...

About 2 minutes with your rule book would have given you this answer. Next time read the book for yourself before you ask. Most the the time its obvious.

Regwon wrote:
About 2 minutes with your rule book would have given you this answer. Next time read the book for yourself before you ask. Most the the time its obvious.

Man, I get flamed when I ask a question that is easily answered in the rule book and I get flamed when I ask something about a grey area that isn't in the rulebook.

I can't win...

Its not that it is easily answered by the rule book Timmah. I have only been a memeber of dakka dakka for a handful of months (I joined 5/17) and I have seen at least 3 threads about this topic. That might be what it is.

Timmah wrote:
Man, I get flamed when I ask a question that is easily answered in the rule book and I get flamed when I ask something about a grey area that isn't in the rulebook.

Ask the right questions, then. It's not the what is said so much as the how it is said.

He was perhaps a trifle curt, but that was far from a flaming.

s2ua7 wrote:Its not that it is easily answered by the rule book Timmah. I have only been a memeber of dakka dakka for a handful of months (I joined 5/17) and I have seen at least 3 threads about this topic. That might be what it is.

Atleast he isn't asking if CSMs get an extra attack for their ccw, bp, and bolter.

It might be worse if he made a thread simply whose title states that he can ignore rules most people assume.

Or maybe it is just me missing things.

Wow. I thought the original poster asks a very legitimate question and he got hammered!

I have encountered this question numerous times in both tournament and casual play and I beleive it is a grey area in the rules.

First of all let me preface my comments by saying that I simply allow assaulters to remain on the floor below and they just count as being in base to base contact.

However, I have heard this argument put forward by others before: The wobbly model syndrome is intented to be used when a model can legally move to a position but the model physically can't be placed there. This means that if your models could normally move to that position then the restrictions of the terrain shouldn't prevent you from placing a model there. However, this does not mean that you can have your models hovering off of an upper story ledge in order to assault the enemy models on an upper floor. They couldn't normally do this so the wobbly model syndrome doesn't come into play.

Here's another example:

XXXXXXX
XXXXXXX GGG
S<---------GGG
XXXXXXX GGG
XXXXXXX

Here we have a Space Marine (S) and a squad of Orks (G). The Space Marine is standing in a narrow alley with high walls (X). Note that the high walls are considred immpassible terrain. The Orks wish to assault the Marine. Only one model can fit down the narrow passsage at a time. How many Orks can get into assault the Marine? The answer is three. One Ork in contact and two in behind (within 2". The remaining Orks will have to languish in behind and will not be able to lend their attacks to the upcomming assault. The Ork player could not invoke the wobbly model syndrome rule and say that if it were not for the terrain there, he would be able to get all of his Orks into combat. This is an abuse of the rule.

Bottom line: If you can't physically get your models into base to base contact with the enemy then you can't assault them. If you can get into base to base contact but your models won't stand up propely due to terrain then use the wobbly model syndrome rule.

Please let me stress that this is not my opinion is it simply something I've heard others players put forth before. I conceed that this point of view may have merit.

The example that came up in a recent tournament was a guy had a lone ratling sniper positioned on top of a 4" high ruined pillar (The ruined pillar area was deemed to be ruins at the start of the game and the ratling made a DT test to climb up there). The Ratling completely covered the top of the pillar. When his Space Marine oppoenent attempted to charge the Ratling it came into question whether or not the Marines could even get into base to base combat with him. The tourney judge declared that the Marines could not be hanging out in mid-air in order to prosecute an assault and the wobbly model syndrome doesn't come into it. In the end they just shot the poor Ratling.

The Rulebook, page 85 wrote:In some cases, the ruin might be genuinely unstable or uneven, or the space could be very limited on a particular level, making it impossible to move assaulting models into base to base contact with the unit they wish to assault. When this happens it is perfectly acceptable to place models as close to their foe as is safely possible, including the level below or above provided you place the assaulting models as close as possible to their opponents and you make clear to your opponent which of your models are in base to base with his models.

Not so grey, holden. Your 'sportsmanlike' solution was exactly correct, though!

Regwon wrote:Its on page 85 of the BGB.



About 2 minutes with your rule book would have given you this answer. Next time read the book for yourself before you ask. Most the the time its obvious.

Modqusition on:
Letsview as a teching moment

While everyone appreciates replies, its often its better if you review your reply to make sure you're not intentionally or unintentionally including sarcasm or other cutting remarks, especially from a poster that is asking a good faith question. We'll assume it was not intended as such. Often, people will not have seen the "obvious" response, or not made the connection. Part of YMTC is to inform them without insulting them. I myself made such a thread this morning concerning assaults, and I've been playing since 91. A simple obvious response was there, but I did not connect that with the issue (thanks again Don Mondo).