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This is my first thread, so sorry if I act like a noob. Basically, One of my best gaming buds has a really cheesy high elf army (Minimal core, 3+ Dragons, STupid amount of pheonix guard etc). I was just looking for some advice on how to beat an army like this. Thanks in advance!

For lizards, run up there and beat him to death.
Steggadons are stubborn and will eventually kill phenix guard (who arent particularly strong). If you can flank the unit you will beat it, the phenix guard aren't stubborn.

I'm guessing you mean 3+ units of dragon princes because 3 dragons is impossible.
dragon princes fold to large blocks of spear wielding sarus warriors and lose if cold one riders charge them.
3 such units will require some tactics on your part to get around them but it can be done.

also, the engine of the gods basically wrecks them. They cant kill it on the charge and it will kill them eventually.

Give me a point level and a more specific list and i can help more.

Pretty much what cypher says.

Two things HE's can't handle too well are T6 monsters and large, sturdy blocks of Static Combat Resolution. When it comes to battles of attrition, the High Elves will most likely falter. So target the Phoenix Guard with a Stegadon or two and just wear out his Dragon Princes.

Wow, replys already!!!

Yeah, I did mean Dragon princes. Sorry, hunger does things to my typing .
Thanks for your replys. I will definately have to get another Steggie to take out the 'guard.

Also, would you recommend taking Temple guard without a Slaan? I thought they could easily stand a few rounds in combat, wearing the elves down ?

Don't take gaurd without Slaan. Saurus Warriors do as good of a job, for about 75% of the cost.

Basically, anyone except swordsmasters and Dragons will get creamed in a Sluggfest. Hit Swordsmasters in the flank, and try to pile up Static Res vs True Dragons.

Actually, swordmasters will lose point for point against sarus warriors. They simply don't do well against T4 good AS units or units that will actually get to swing back (spears are nasty vs swordmasters).

hero level fighty chars also own anything in the high elf army. Elves dont do well vs chars.

yeah, I'm going to have to go with what the others are saying. Elves aren't the greatest vs T4 armies, and they certainly don't like how good the save is on a lizard even fighting with spears. Elves usually go with small units, so bounce off of combat res, unless they can generate enough kills. Since Lizards are tough as core units normally get, the elves bounce off.

Use cold-blooded + battle standards to extremely good effect. A block of Saurus can lose by 4 (in and of itself a tough feat: a single unit of dragon princes to the front can't do it), and still have a 60% chance of holding with a nearby bsb. Most HE units, once they fail to blow you up with a charge, they're going to fall apart pretty quickly. Same goes for stegs: stubborn cold-blooded Ld 6 near a bsb is going to be 89% successful on his break checks.

I agree with Crazy_Carnifex. One shouldn't even touch temple guard without the intent of putting a Slann in them. Even then, you should be expecting a ~700 point unit if you do. Now, Stubborn cold-blooded rerolling Ld8 temple guard (WS4 2+ save in CC) do not go away, period. If you have the models, you could try the temple guard/Slann. In which case that block could walk up to/through their army with impunity; Get double-flank charged by 2 dragon prince units and giggle when they kill 4 or 5 guard total and you just giggle and hold. I personally like them alot, as it's like a block of 15 or 20 chaos warriors that don't break and are ItP. With an untouchable lvl 4 Wizard in it. For real nastiness, give the Slann lore of metal or death and use burning iron/steal soul to pick out standard bearers and champions mid-fight.

EDIT: oh, I forgot. Razordons. If you can get them in range without them exploding to archers (unlikely) or bolt throwers (likely, multiple shot hurts now that hunting packs don't get the -1 to hit skirmishers), they'll tear up most things T3, and make short work of normally nasty units like MSU swordmasters.

1 unit of 3 salamanders kill elves good.

Run them up into terrain (usually a carfully placed forest) and then flame away. They will massacre infantry however they will be useless vs DPs due to dragon armour.

Ancient stegadon with EOG.

Kroxigor smash elves.

Units of 15 saurus x6 wide with spears and full command... can take a few casualties and still attack back with 25 attacks.

Terradons with their drop rocks are fantastic. Move them into a forest first turn then run them over any unit you want to assassinate, then warmachine hunt.

Thanks for all your suggestions. Yesterday, I added an EOTG and some Salamanders and got my first win !
I keep forgetting Saurus warriors and cav now have +1 save ..I miss the old codex.

Note: Does anyone have any tips on how to use Kroak effectively? I won him in a painting competion, but I'm a noob with magic.

I don't believe either of those two units have a 1+ save
cold ones = light armor, scaly skin (6+), mounted, shield, thick skined
- 2+

Sarus warriors = light armor, shield
- 5+/4+ if you go handweapon/shield (do they have skaley skin?)

They have scaly skin. The saurus are 4+/3+. The cav are 2+. The scaly skin bonus is 5+ IIRC. I know the saurus warriors don't have armor, am unsure how the Cold one cav get to 2.

@ notabot187

Saurus warriors don't have 1+ saves (I was hungry again ), but in later rounds of combat Cav can get a 1+ save by using hand weapons and sheilds.

Cavalry don't get saves via hand weapons and shields.

Really? Those dragon princes have a lot to answer for then! Thanks for the clear up.

Hand weapon + shields are only for models on foot.

also you cannot switch weapons during a fight: the weapon you pick for the first round is what you use for the rest of the fight. Otherwise everyone would use a lance/spear/flail/morning star first round, then swith to HW/shield
EDIT I am a big dumb liar who doesn't know who wears what armour in High Elf armies EDIT

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:Kroxigor smash elves.

I'm not so sure about this one. They're still only T4 models with 4+ saves. You charge some swordmasters (usual 7 wide=~5 wounds on kroxes) or White Lions (even 5-wide is capable of finishing off a krox), and they're going to go first and make you pay for it. The forced fear check is nice, but they're all relatively high Ld. 3 Kroxigors will kill 3 or 4 of virtually any elf without a save better than 4+, but this just means they're going to bounce of most blocks since they're 3 ranks+standard default, and outnumber as well. I will not argue, however, their ability to make dragon princes blow up spectacularly. So long as they don't get their lance bonus, you're going to rip them a new one.

also, Cold one Cavalry:
5+ scaly skin
5+ cold one bonus (like a barded mount) (3+ total)
6+ shield (2+ total)

there you have it. Every saurus has a 5+ scaly skin save, unless he's a Lord then it's 4+. Then some models have armour (like Temple Guard's Light Armour, or the magic Heavy armour you can buy for heroes), then most have shields for 1, and if they're infantry with HW/shield that's another 1. Though you really shouldn't see that unless you're using Temple Guard. Saurus should, imo, always have spears. Doubling your attacks is worth far more to me than making an extra 1/6 saves. Hell, even a 6 wide saurus spear regiment throws 25 S4 attacks.

Dragon Princes:
Dragon Armour: 5+ (and immune to fire)
Barded Elven Steed: 5+ (3+ total)
shield : 6+ (2+ total)

There, now he doesn't need to tell you what his dragon prince's armour save is, because you already know.

Oooh I didn't realise that phoenix guard had dragon armour, but it makes sense I suppose guarding the flame and all that jazz.

That suddenly makes them a hell of alot better and very close to WLs in value.

Phoenix Guard do NOT have dragon armor. They have mundane Heavy Armor and a 4+ ward save.

That being said, even just the 4+ ward save makes them a very close competitor (imo) to WL's in value.

Only thing I can say about Pheonix Guard is to hit 'em repeatedly with Salamanders.

Yeah I just checked the rulebook, heavy armour on phoenix guard, I thought Dragon Armour was too great an addition to them...

Would these same tactics apply to DE and WoC? I thoght i would ask before creating a new thread.

Most dark elf units are mirror images of HE units, with slight characteristic or weapon changes.

I.e. Dragon princes = Cold One Knights. The DPs get ASF and dragon armour. The COKs get fear, stupidity, eternal hatred.... otherwise they are identical.

The BIG difference in the lists is the ability of DE mages to get almost limitless power dice when in rank and file units by killing off men in the units, and the hydra.

I played against the DEs with lizzies at 1500pts on the weekend and at the end he only had the hydra left. 2 Salamanders roasted 14 DE spearmen and 12 corsairs in 2 turns....
The winner for me though was the saurus scar vet BSB with 6 attacks on cold one. He failed stupidity twice early in the game, had the WS 1 spell cast on his unit when he got into combat but pumped out enough attacks (and with rerolls for breaks) to just keep me in the fight, until turn 5 when I got rid of the spell, smashed 5 DE warriors by himself and broke the unit of corsairs, DE spears and 2 mages (one was general) for a 900pt turn around with the bonuses.

My bad people, this is what happens when I open my mouth before I open my codex....

I agree that dragon armour would be a huge bump for the Phoenix Guard. I knew there was some reason I preferred White Lions overall...

With DE, If you can engage his units in combat for about 2-3 turns without him having some kind of flank charge or assassin, your T4 Saurus Warriors can whittle them down.

DE really, really don't like being hit. Many of the DE units like combats that they can win quickly. Against other elf armies or even Empire, they don't care much about how long it takes, but against any T4 armies, they're gonna hit your units so that it's a fair fight for them, but not for you.

Thanks to everyone who commented. I think it's time for a poster!