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This is for any one to post necron tactics for other people to enjoy.

Hey,welcome to our dusty rather mad corner of cyber-space.

Anywho,you can't a thread about the necrons here but feel free to do it in the 40k tatics section.

Hi and welcome.

There are many threads here on Dakka about Necron tactics, some are very recent.

Check out the tactics forums or army lists section, and don't forget about the search function if all else fails!

Moving to tactics

Saw a good one on the GW site.

For this you need two monoliths.

When one of your Necron squads is charged by the enemy, use Monolith 1 to teleport them out of CC next turn. The enemy troops left will be quite bunched together so this is the perfect opportunity to unleash a particle whip attack with Monolith 2.

EDIT - 700 posts! And with that, Flashman retires for the night

1) Move
2) Shoot
3) Rinse and repeat
4) ???
5) $$$Profit!$$$

Rule #1. Dont take a monolith in 1500 points or below.
Rule #2. Dont ever take a C'tan, Pariahs or Wraiths

Priority1: Lord w/ Orb + as many warriors as possible
Priotity 2: H. Destroyers

Destroyers, Immortals and Flayed ones are pretty much the other units you can look into, but only if you've got 30+ warriors in a 1000 pt list, 40 in a 1500, and 50 in a 2000 list.

If you run a destroyer heavy list, then you should get Tomb Spyders

I was reading some tactics recently and it suggested that for every one non-necron choice you made in the army you should include around three Necrons. EG. If you want a Monolith take three squads of Warriors. Try to stay out of combat with a majority of the army (Obvious CC stuff like Scarabs, Wraiths and Flayed Ones should go in CC, but usually to support the ranged stuff). But, what seems to work is to keep the army in a large group and walk them across the field.

Scarabs are at the front to protect the Warriors from CC and anything that would get past their save. Scarabs are for tieing stuff up in CC until something better can come along to deal with it. Destroyers are for guarding the Flanks and can be used to slow down the fast stuff that could take the army out, you could use them to stop transports; but that is what the Heavy Destroyers should be doing. Deep Striking a Monolith closer to your opponets deplyoment zone might be useful, but don't put it too close. This depends if you're going to have Warriors in reserves and come out of it.

C'Tan and Monoliths are great for drawing attention away from the models with the Necron ability. But, using one is completely optional as you could just get 20 Warriors for the price of the Nightbringer and 16 for the price of the Deciever. An important thing is to also keep track of how many models with the Necron ability are in your army and keep track of how much you can lose before Phase Out. EG. If you have 40 Warriors and a Necron Lord, 25% is 10.25, rounding up is 11. Which means you can lose 29 models before you Phase Out.

WD40 wrote:Rule #1. Dont take a monolith in 1500 points or below.

Unless you really feel lucky, I'd say take a monolith at any game 1000pts or higher if you want a shot at winning.

WD40 wrote:Rule #2. Dont ever take a C'tan, Pariahs or Wraiths

Agreed on the wraiths. Not as much on the Pariahs. While I do recognize they are bad, I have won many a game because of them. As for the C'tan, they are amazing, especially in 5th ed. Take Deceiver, and watch your problems disappear.

WD40 wrote:Priority1: Lord w/ Orb + as many warriors as possible

Are you trolling? I am completely serious. This is a thread to help necron players. Warriors are universally quite terrible. I have never seen any experienced necron player take more than 30, and usually they lament taking so many. Your best units are destroyers and immortals. They should be your priority one. Their firepower is superior in every way to your warriors. Maxing out warriors will make your phase out irreparably high, and you will likely lose any game you play against orks, nids, DE, or any remotely assault-capable army.

WD40 wrote:Priotity 2: H. Destroyers

Monoliths are the best tank in the game on a point-for-point basis. Maybe even including apocalypse. With monoliths you can deny your opponent any casualties your t5 units might have suffered. Heavy destroyers are usually worse than normal destroyers in terms of anti-tank power, excepting only vehicles with AV 13/14. They come in smaller squads and so can be phased out easier, and they deny you the use of monoliths and tomb spyders, both vastly superior units.

WD40 wrote:Destroyers, Immortals and Flayed ones are pretty much the other units you can look into, but only if you've got 30+ warriors in a 1000 pt list, 40 in a 1500, and 50 in a 2000 list.

Flayed ones no. They are also quite terrible. And again, warriors will lose you more games than destroyers will win you. And that's saying something.

WD40 wrote:If you run a destroyer heavy list, then you should get Tomb Spyders

Why? Tomb spyders are only good at assault, so they will almost never be close enough to your destroyers to aid them. If they are, either your spyders or destroyers are in the wrong place. Not that I wish to demean perhaps the best MC in the game, but just saying...your post all around will lead a lot of necron players astray. I certainly know that GW would be happy to sell more warriors, but there's a reason no one buys them.

If you were entirely serious, and not trolling this thread, I am truly...well, I don't know. Maybe you should play more games or play different armies or people. Maybe your meta is reeeeeally odd. And maybe my record with my own necrons is on borrowed time compared to the warrior block army. But I don't think so. And I've seen no evidence that any of your advice is sound. If you really think that it is, I have some questions, like: How do you damage vehicles? How do you deal with assault? How do you play an army with an effective range of 12" without every opponent outmaneuvering you? How do you deal with Mechdar? Mechvets? Vulkanmech? Double Lash? Beast Daemons? Ravenwing? Deathwing?

Once you answer those questions, you might start to see your list changing. Then again, maybe I'm wrong.

EDIT:
Just read above post. You round down for phase out, and you have to destroy the model that equals the phase out number to phase out the army, not one less. For example, to fix yours, you would have a phase out of 10, and thus would lose if you were reduced to 9 models or less, not 10 (or 11, for that matter). And again, warriors are a big mistake.

Did they change that? (serious question) Because I was reading the codex and it said "If a Necron army is reduced to 25% or less of its original number of models (in other words, 75% of its models, rounding fractions up, are destroyed), it will disappear in an eerie fashion"

Unless I'm misreading it from being tired.

It's ok, it's 4:00 am here, so I am also tired. As those 75% are the ones that need to be destroyed rounded up, it means that the ones that don't need to be destroyed are rounded down. It could probably have been worded better, but that is often the case with older codecies.

Don't worry I got it now
Damn subnetting >_>

Does anyone have an idea how to protect Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers? I've always found that, as useful as they are with their Gauss and Heavy Gauss Cannons, they are destroyed in the first few turns, even with We'll Be Back rolls and Resurrection Orbs.

WD40 wrote:Rule #1. Dont take a monolith in 1500 points or below.
Rule #2. Dont ever take a C'tan, Pariahs or Wraiths

Priority1: Lord w/ Orb + as many warriors as possible
Priotity 2: H. Destroyers

Destroyers, Immortals and Flayed ones are pretty much the other units you can look into, but only if you've got 30+ warriors in a 1000 pt list, 40 in a 1500, and 50 in a 2000 list.

If you run a destroyer heavy list, then you should get Tomb Spyders

Sorry but I agree with almost nothing you've said.

Necrons have access to limited amounts of units that provide cost effective kill, those units are;

C'tan (Specifically Big D)
Immortals
Destroyers

These units are -relatively- killy for their points cost, they should be your 'go to units', selected in redundant choices (IE if you run immortals, run the max amount of squads at the max size you can afford)

Then you have your support units, the stuff that keeps you in the fight. Your choices are;

Monoliths (1st priority choice)
Scarabs
Tomb Spiders

Monoliths provide a handful of assets that are otherwize unavailible to 'Crons. They can block line of sight, they can block movement of not just infantry but vehicles as well. They provide you with a close combat escape, providing you survived the initial charge. They bring the only Necron template weapon, great for forcing CC hordes to move in a more spread out, and slower fashion. Lastly, they provide the only effecient (ranged)MEQ killing weapon availible to 'crons

Tomb spiders are viable if you are running multiples of same type units, giving you the flexibility to spread out without worrying about losing a squads worth of WBB.

Scarabs are just about the best infantry speed bump in the game. With turboboost they are fast and survivable enough to be planted right in the enemeys face, forcing them to deal with a low prioirty threat while your guns aquire good firing positions.

Now, out with the stuff I run with in a competitive match;

Big D, He's insane, you just need a monolith to protect him from things like lootas and snipers. He is there to countercharge anything that gets near your line in a threatening manner. As 40KE affectionatly puts it, he plays 'goalie'.

MINIMUM warriors, they suck, and are a liability, and need a 140 point lord(And he amounts to exactly 140 points of no kill, as in a waste of points) to gain HALF the survivability of their Immortal brothers.

Then I fill the rest in with:

Immortal spam w/Monoliths
Destroyer spam w/Monoliths

You deal with Phase out by keeping your warriors in reserve, then bringing them in behind the monoliths to be kept out of sight and away from harm.

You deal with objectives by contesting one with big D, and using your monoliths late game to 'sling shot' your warriors into objective positions. Or they just walk to the objectives if you were smart and placed as many near the board edges as possible.

NecronAndyB wrote:Does anyone have an idea how to protect Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers? I've always found that, as useful as they are with their Gauss and Heavy Gauss Cannons, they are destroyed in the first few turns, even with We'll Be Back rolls and Resurrection Orbs.

They're usually large targets because they get to travel like jet bikes and still fire either three s6 ap4 shots or one s9 ap3 shot. The best thing I guess would be to use the range of their weapons to your advantage so that you can at least keep them out of the way of some threats. Don't CC with them, just zoom to a good spot then shoot.

Thats great and everything but immortals cost 13$ each, correct? Unless you convert them. Im glad you guys like spending 100$+ per unit. Beat the GW sell-a-thon...

Warriors are amazing for thier points. Obviously nothing we say will match up if you dont like using them. Why are you playing necrons if you dont like Warriors?

Regaurdless of wether or not you take warriors, any assault army will tear up the necron army. Destroyers are even more vunerable to assault, unless you like giving your opponents coversaves by shooting over your own units... which completley gets rid of AP4. Although i like normal Destroyers, they trade the ability of long range for the weakness of low model count. A small amount of concentrated fire will down them, and since you guys dont like Tomb spyders they probably wont get a WBB. Immortals can counter that, but as i said before, theyre expensive ($$), so im working on converting some.

The Monolith doesnt help when you get sweeped, and i dont think its worth its points. My wbb rolls are sometimes lacking, just beacuse its the nature of rolling dice, (i guess you guys always roll 5s and 6s) so the monolith is there to get some wbbs, and rarely use the template. I'd rather have more models then save a couple of the ones i already have.

The more units of warriors you have the less of a threat assault is because hopscotch isnt around anymore. With 2/3s of the games being objectives, why would you limit yourself to 2 scoring units? That kinda just means you want to tie.

FLayed ones arent particuarly good, but they can beat MEQs. Pariahs are garbage.

With mechanized lists being more dominant, H. Destroyers are even more important. Yeah i realize tomb spyders are only good in assault, but i take them so destroyer units can get thier WBB rolls.

And yeah, lords are a waste of points.

Just wondering are you the players that think necrons need that codex update? I think theyre working great. I've only phased out once and that was to a terminator army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You're implying that you have:
1 Lord
2 Units of Warriors (20)
1 Unit of Immortals (8)
1 Unit of Destroyers (3-4)
MOnolith
Ctan

in your list. You disagree about my point of monoliths not being in 1500 or less, so im assuming that you take them in 1500 lists, along with big d. Beacuase as you said, you need a monolith with him.

That list makes it so your opponent has to kill 23 "necrons" for you to phase out. Gee thats pretty easy when the warrior unist can get swept by assault units, and with SM + eldar lists, ap2 is around, so they can get a couple with fire.

From the "Support" perpective. You have no anti-tank, unless you count the monolith template as being anti-tank, you have a unit of destroyers that will likely not get saves/wbb unless you put them next to the lord, or will grant your opponents coversaves by shooting over your units. Then you've got 8 immortals. You guys never use warriors so lets not even count those.

The 1500 eldar list i just made has 6 meltas+1 starcannon, 2 fireprisms, 2 units of scorpions that get 40 attacks on the charge each, and dire avengers that can get of 99 shots every other turn.

The list i run (warrior heavy) makes it so i didnt have to pay much money for my army, and that i wont ever phase out, which is usally the only thing necron players ever complain about. It also has enough anti-tank to deal with anything short of IG.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Can you answer all of these in return? Not trying to be an ass, i'd just like to see what you're doing.

How do you damage vehicles?
H. Destroyers

How do you deal with assault?
Lots of warriors. I assume you're talking dedicated assault units, which is what i play against. Just let the unit get sweeped and then open up. MEQs would keep the warriors in combat for forever, so with more warriors that means that i still have stuff thats not locked in CC.

How do you play an army with an effective range of 12" without every opponent outmaneuvering you?
Its not like its as big of a deal as it is in fantasy. I keep everything 18'' away from the sides so i dont get outflanked. And actually i use the 24'' range more often than the 12'' range. I kinda have to.

How do you deal with Mechdar?
H. Destroyers + Destroyers. Its not like immortals are going to do much against the tanks.

Mechvets?
Im assuming this is Mechanized IG Veterans? Otherwise not sure what this means. As i said before H. Destroyers can deal with tanks, outside of IG spamming them everywhere. At that point i'd have to use warriors to glance + stunn them.

Vulkanmech?
The flamers arent a threat, but the meltas + thunderhammers are. Its not like the Ctan will be that effective.

T_T Again h. destroyers

Double Lash?
Not sure. But i was told that you shouldnt be using sorcers before 1850, and we were talking about 1500 or less games.

Beast Daemons?
who?

Ravenwing?
Never played against them. I suppose destroyers could deal with the T5.

Deathwing?
As i said before i lost to this. Enough concentrated fire can deal with them, and so can the H. Destroyers.

Im not a veteran or anything, i just have some stuff that works for me (and generally the other necron players i know) i was trying to share that. Honestly necrons shouldnt be doing tournaments right now anyway, and you asked me questions about all the extremly competitive lists. Beyond that, wouldnt you see those lists in like 2000 pts +? The discussion was started off of my point of Monoliths shouldnt be taken in 1500 or less.

In a 2250 list, i would consider monoliths, but again, you talk about all these mechanized lists, and i ask myself, why would i want to? when i can put 9 mobile lascannons out. Destroyers are great too, but i think you underestimate necron warriors.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

You deal with objectives by contesting one with big D, and using your monoliths late game to 'sling shot' your warriors into objective positions. Or they just walk to the objectives if you were smart and placed as many near the board edges as possible.

T_T wow. If that works for you thats great, but that strategy has OUTFLANK written all over it.

"as many"... thought we were talking minimal warriors.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You also shouldnt be gearing your list to take out one specific kind of enemy. You just make a list that works pretty well against everyone, and so far thats what ive got. I make changes here and there, but so far its getting better.

WD40 wrote:Thats great and everything but immortals cost 13$ each, correct? Unless you convert them. Im glad you guys like spending 100$+ per unit. Beat the GW sell-a-thon...

I bought them when they were cheap. And no one enjoys forking over $100.

WD40 wrote:Warriors are amazing for thier points. Obviously nothing we say will match up if you dont like using them. Why are you playing necrons if you dont like Warriors?

Who is "we"? I love playing necrons because of the extremely tactical and dynamic nature of their playstyle, combined with real psychological meddling. I enjoy playing them because of all of the other units. If you enjoy playing them because of only one unit, why do you play them? Doesn't that get boring?

WD40 wrote:Regaurdless of wether or not you take warriors, any assault army will tear up the necron army. Destroyers are even more vunerable to assault, unless you like giving your opponents coversaves by shooting over your own units... which completley gets rid of AP4. Although i like normal Destroyers, they trade the ability of long range for the weakness of low model count. A small amount of concentrated fire will down them, and since you guys dont like Tomb spyders they probably wont get a WBB. Immortals can counter that, but as i said before, theyre expensive ($$), so im working on converting some.

I have not lost against nids. I have not lost against orks. I have not lost against dark eldar. I have lost once each against daemons and assault marines, but only because I've also beaten both at least 10 times, and made big mistakes during those games. Assault armies can't tear you up if their assault units don't reach you. As for cover saves from destroyers, most opponents who are worth their salt will have their units in cover in the first place, so it's a moot point. The ones that don't have invulnerable saves or 3+ saves or better anyway. I never said I don't like tomb spyders. I love them. In fact, if it wasn't for the monolith being so amazing I might field 3 maxed squads of them.

WD40 wrote:The Monolith doesnt help when you get sweeped, and i dont think its worth its points. My wbb rolls are sometimes lacking, just beacuse its the nature of rolling dice, (i guess you guys always roll 5s and 6s) so the monolith is there to get some wbbs, and rarely use the template. I'd rather have more models then save a couple of the ones i already have.

Nothing helps when you get sweeped because you can't get back up, so I don't see what that has to do with the monolith. As for attrition, it doesn't work if the enemy kills you faster because those extra units you field are weak.

WD40 wrote:The more units of warriors you have the less of a threat assault is because hopscotch isnt around anymore. With 2/3s of the games being objectives, why would you limit yourself to 2 scoring units? That kinda just means you want to tie.

I wonder how it is that I've tied once in 33 games if this is the case. The surprising thing is that my opponent barely escaped with that tie because his landspeeders counted as scoring units, and he moved flat out, and survived assault with the Deceiver in order to tie. Barely. Seven has most of the good necron tactics down when it comes to warriors. Keep them hidden, hold them in reserve, and then slingshot them onto the objectives at the end of the game. If your army wasn't capable of shooting your opponent off of his objectives, then necrons are not for you.

WD40 wrote:With mechanized lists being more dominant, H. Destroyers are even more important. Yeah i realize tomb spyders are only good in assault, but i take them so destroyer units can get thier WBB rolls.

I use tomb spyders as tank destroyers. Heavy destroyers are, as mathammer proves, actually worse against mech than normal destroyers.

WD40 wrote:Just wondering are you the players that think necrons need that codex update? I think theyre working great. I've only phased out once and that was to a terminator army.

If you think that your third edition codex is "working great," may I direct you to YMDC. Once there, select search and type in necron. After you've read every thread from this year alone on the subject, or three weeks have gone by, feel free to try and convince me of this again. See you in three weeks.

Additionally, I think that necrons are an awesome army, and I have only phased out twice myself. Once was because I wanted to try out heavy destroyers. Big mistake. Back on track, you can have a competitive list, and even have fun playing an army, but if half of that army's rules are confusing and/or outdated, yes, you really do need an update.

WD40 wrote:You're implying that you have:
1 Lord
2 Units of Warriors (20)
1 Unit of Immortals (8)
1 Unit of Destroyers (3-4)
MOnolith
Ctan

in your list. You disagree about my point of monoliths not being in 1500 or less, so im assuming that you take them in 1500 lists, along with big d. Beacuase as you said, you need a monolith with him.

This was interesting, as well as impressive, because it's the first time I've seen an entire army list extrapolated from implication. That aside, he never said the monolith was necessary, just useful. Obviously at fewer points you have to cut things out. The list you imagined him to have implied is actually not as good as it could be, because I personally think it would be a better idea to add either destroyers or tomb spyders.

WD40 wrote:That list makes it so your opponent has to kill 23 "necrons" for you to phase out. Gee thats pretty easy when the warrior unist can get swept by assault units, and with SM + eldar lists, ap2 is around, so they can get a couple with fire.

Yes, wow it's remarkable how easy it is to theoretically kill an army you assumed a previous poster made, especially when you ignore his tactical advice simultaneously. First off, the list isn't optimized for phase out at 33. Optimal phase out preparedness would put the number of necrons at 31 or 35. Second, 33-23=10. The phase out of this list is not 10. It is 9. Meaning you have to kill 25 necrons in order to phase it out. Finally, and most importantly, you can't shoot (let alone assault) warriors who are out of range and out of LoS. If you don't understand how that's possible, read his post again.

WD40 wrote:From the "Support" perpective. You have no anti-tank, unless you count the monolith template as being anti-tank, you have a unit of destroyers that will likely not get saves/wbb unless you put them next to the lord, or will grant your opponents coversaves by shooting over your units. Then you've got 8 immortals. You guys never use warriors so lets not even count those.

Yes, the straw-man list you supposed he meticulously crafted (but you actually did) doesn't have much support. Unless, of course, you notice that the following units (excluding warriors, as you said) in the army can destroy vehicles in one shot:

All of them.

Let me run this down for you just to make things clear. Monoliths have strength 9 ap1 ordnance weapons. The c'tan has 5 s9 MC attacks. The destroyers can destroy rhino equivalents, while the immortals can destroy trukk equivalents. Even the lord can have a warscythe.

WD40 wrote:The list i run (warrior heavy) makes it so i didnt have to pay much money for my army, and that i wont ever phase out, which is usally the only thing necron players ever complain about. It also has enough anti-tank to deal with anything short of IG.

Actually, warriors make your army more expensive because once you realize how bad they are you have to spend more money on useful units. If you don't ever phase out, then why did you (that one time)? I actually have never heard of a necron player complaining of phase out until just now. I think it is a cool, flavorful drawback that leads to interesting games. Something I can complain about is deepstriking monoliths and the mishap table.

WD40 wrote:Can you answer all of these in return? Not trying to be an ass, i'd just like to see what you're doing.

Yes.

WD40 wrote:How do you damage vehicles?
H. Destroyers

Monoliths, Tomb Spyders, Destroyers, C'tan, Lords, Pariahs, and sometimes Immortals.
(note the comparison of options is 1 to 6.5)

WD40 wrote:How do you deal with assault?
Lots of warriors. I assume you're talking dedicated assault units, which is what i play against. Just let the unit get sweeped and then open up. MEQs would keep the warriors in combat for forever, so with more warriors that means that i still have stuff thats not locked in CC.

While the majority of this comment makes no sense on your part, my answer(s) is:
C'tan, Tomb Spyders, Pariahs, Lords, and sometimes other things, depending on the situation. Note again the ratio: 1 to 4.5.

WD40 wrote:Vulkanmech?
The flamers arent a threat, but the meltas + thunderhammers are. Its not like the Ctan will be that effective.

Again, this makes no sense, but I will try to explain why. Meltas can't kill t5 necrons outright. Thunderhammers have to roll an average of 4 attacks against a c'tan to wound it once, so a full terminator assault squad might do...2 wounds (if rolling above average) before they are all dead.

WD40 wrote:Double Lash?
Not sure. But i was told that you shouldnt be using sorcers before 1850, and we were talking about 1500 or less games.

I've yet to see a lash sorcerer. Daemon princes, on the other hand, are quite commonplace.

WD40 wrote:Beast Daemons?
who?

All cavalry daemons with rending. Look it up if you don't know.

WD40 wrote:Ravenwing?
Never played against them. I suppose destroyers could deal with the T5.

The danger of ravenwing is not in their higher toughness. It is with their scoring land speeders, combat squadded bikes, and scoring attack bikes. Your army is slow to react, and thus a ravenwing army would contest every objective at the end of a game, forcing a tie at best.

WD40 wrote:Im not a veteran or anything, i just have some stuff that works for me (and generally the other necron players i know) i was trying to share that. Honestly necrons shouldnt be doing tournaments right now anyway, and you asked me questions about all the extremly competitive lists. Beyond that, wouldnt you see those lists in like 2000 pts +? The discussion was started off of my point of Monoliths shouldnt be taken in 1500 or less.

Why shouldn't necrons be in tournaments? I used a weighted evaluation system to discern the top armies at ard boyz this year, and necrons are 4th (orks are 5th, btw).

WD40 wrote:

You deal with objectives by contesting one with big D, and using your monoliths late game to 'sling shot' your warriors into objective positions. Or they just walk to the objectives if you were smart and placed as many near the board edges as possible.

T_T wow. If that works for you thats great, but that strategy has OUTFLANK written all over it.

"as many"... thought we were talking minimal warriors.

If my opponent outflanked a charge into my Deceiver, I would laugh in their face. If they manage to outflank your warriors, then you sent them after the objectives too early. You wait until the last turn, so any outflankers will have already come in.

WD40 wrote:You also shouldnt be gearing your list to take out one specific kind of enemy. You just make a list that works pretty well against everyone, and so far thats what ive got. I make changes here and there, but so far its getting better.

By your own admission, necrons as you play them have trouble with "any assault army." The list I play doesn't. And these lists are competitive, so they are geared towards the meta. The meta right now is mech. Even so, these lists not only work against mech, they also do well against everything else. That's why they are good.

Play a few more games on vassal, or against experienced armies, and I think you'll see just how stark the contrast is between the difficulty of winning with each of these two schools of thought.

I bought them when they were cheap. And no one enjoys forking over $100.

When they were $11?

Who is "we"? I love playing necrons because of the extremely tactical and dynamic nature of their playstyle, combined with real psychological meddling. I enjoy playing them because of all of the other units. If you enjoy playing them because of only one unit, why do you play them? Doesn't that get boring?

We is you + me, and the other dude. Why wasnt that clear. You and I wont agree if you dont like warriors, and I do. I also didnt say i only like 1 unit. Dont bash me for assuming stuff, when you just did right there. The necron army isnt exactly dynamic. Everything is supposed to be the same, thats thier nature. All necron lists look the same (besides yours and mine apparantly).

I have not lost against nids. I have not lost against orks. I have not lost against dark eldar. I have lost once each against daemons and assault marines, but only because I've also beaten both at least 10 times, and made big mistakes during those games. Assault armies can't tear you up if their assault units don't reach you. As for cover saves from destroyers, most opponents who are worth their salt will have their units in cover in the first place, so it's a moot point. The ones that don't have invulnerable saves or 3+ saves or better anyway. I never said I don't like tomb spyders. I love them. In fact, if it wasn't for the monolith being so amazing I might field 3 maxed squads of them.

I havent lost against nids / eldar, and i havent played orks yet. I dont know anyone who's playing with DE right now, but they would be some tough competiton. No need to be modest. Im not really understanding your reasons. If scorpions in a WS can move 36'' a turn, how can you keep those away from you? True on the cover bit.

Nothing helps when you get sweeped because you can't get back up, so I don't see what that has to do with the monolith. As for attrition, it doesn't work if the enemy kills you faster because those extra units you field are weak.

Anything that dies before you get swepped gets a wbb if you have a friendly unit within 6''. If you take a bunch of warriors/tomb spyders theres a pretty darn good chance that your 1/2 of that unit will stand back up. (this is an estimate, dont pull out math hammer on me).

How are destroyers or immortals any better than the weak units that i field? Tomb spyders arent that great either (Ws2, and 2 attacks right?). Duh it doesnt help for attrition, necrons wont win a battle of attrition, thats why you use the monolith to get them out. Thats my point... But you could easily put a VoD on a lord instead and not waste the HS slot on a Lith.

I wonder how it is that I've tied once in 33 games if this is the case. The surprising thing is that my opponent barely escaped with that tie because his landspeeders counted as scoring units, and he moved flat out, and survived assault with the Deceiver in order to tie. Barely. Seven has most of the good necron tactics down when it comes to warriors. Keep them hidden, hold them in reserve, and then slingshot them onto the objectives at the end of the game. If your army wasn't capable of shooting your opponent off of his objectives, then necrons are not for you.

Lets not be modest. I wonder too, give us some insight. This is a tactic discussion. Spamming warriors works for objectives for me. You also cant KEEP them in reserve. You have to roll, and when they have a high enough roll, they have to come in. My army is capeable of shooting any enemy. I dont think i said anything about my army not being able to shoot stuff off of objectives. Again, dont bash on me for assuming stuff, if you're doing it yourself. You also cant take reserves if you only field 2 units.

I use tomb spyders as tank destroyers. Heavy destroyers are, as mathammer proves, actually worse against mech than normal destroyers.

No offense, but can you do the math-hammer. I was in a state of mind where destroyers were better, untill i actually used H. Destroyers, and instead of wasting all of the destroyer shots to stun stuff, i actually started blowing up tanks.

If you think that your third edition codex is "working great," may I direct you to YMDC. Once there, select search and type in necron. After you've read every thread from this year alone on the subject, or three weeks have gone by, feel free to try and convince me of this again. See you in three weeks.

I think i can make a proper assumption here, and say that you think that the codex isnt working great. It is for my friendly matches. Why not?, the way you talk, your army is perfect. Expecially when you said later on that necrons are the 4th best army. (following Eldar, Orks, and IG, right?) I dont deny that the necrons need a codex update (but it can definatley wait), but i think alot of the points people complain about are false.

Additionally, I think that necrons are an awesome army, and I have only phased out twice myself. Once was because I wanted to try out heavy destroyers. Big mistake. Back on track, you can have a competitive list, and even have fun playing an army, but if half of that army's rules are confusing and/or outdated, yes, you really do need an update.

there. Contradiction. Im sorry if the rules confuse you.

This was interesting, as well as impressive, because it's the first time I've seen an entire army list extrapolated from implication. That aside, he never said the monolith was necessary, just useful. Obviously at fewer points you have to cut things out. The list you imagined him to have implied is actually not as good as it could be, because I personally think it would be a better idea to add either destroyers or tomb spyders.

I tried to put 2 + 2 together. Maybe he can come and explain further. Sorry for assuming, but it sounded like he would be fine taking a Ctan + a monolith in a 1500 or less list, and i thought that, thats odd. Destroyers were already in my extrapolated implicated list.

Yes, wow it's remarkable how easy it is to theoretically kill an army you assumed a previous poster made, especially when you ignore his tactical advice simultaneously. First off, the list isn't optimized for phase out at 33. Optimal phase out preparedness would put the number of necrons at 31 or 35. Second, 33-23=10. The phase out of this list is not 10. It is 9. Meaning you have to kill 25 necrons in order to phase it out. Finally, and most importantly, you can't shoot (let alone assault) warriors who are out of range and out of LoS. If you don't understand how that's possible, read his post again.

Sorry, my pseudo-dislexia can flare up, my math could be wrong, and probably is. =( I dont really understand anything you said right there up to the LoS rule. Obviously you cant shoot warriors out of range. In fact that applies for striking scorpions, space marines, imperial guard veterans... hmm. Everyone i think. Warriors hiding cant capture objectives.

Yes, the straw-man list you supposed he meticulously crafted (but you actually did) doesn't have much support. Unless, of course, you notice that the following units (excluding warriors, as you said) in the army can destroy vehicles in one shot:

*sigh* anything can kill in one shot with a lucky die roll. What units kill vehicles consistantly, without having to mame them first?

Let me run this down for you just to make things clear. Monoliths have strength 9 ap1 ordnance weapons.

Not if you have reserves, are teleporting necrons, or i think the turn you deeprstike. Deepstriking means no shots on turn 1 + 2, maybe 3. Reserves means turn 4. Turn 5 is open, but you probably want to sling shot the warriors that youve been hiding because theres the risk of turn 6 not happening. Tell me if thats wrong, beacuse i think that means you wont get to use the ordinance weapon.

The c'tan has 5 s9 MC attacks. The destroyers can destroy rhino equivalents, while the immortals can destroy trukk equivalents. Even the lord can have a warscythe.

A Ctan has a movement of 6, 12'' if it assaults. In my mind its not worth replacing 20 warriors. (I realize you dont agree with that, no need to rant). What in the world is a trukk equiv? The only thing i can think of that has as crappy armor is that are some of the DE tanks. Is that what youre talking about? Warcythes arent that great. Wouldnt you rather have the ap3 shots? You can also only penetrate rhinos from the side/rear with destroyers, and thats on a 6. Did you know rolling a 6 is a 1/6 chance? Thats not that high. Same deal with immortals.

Actually, warriors make your army more expensive because once you realize how bad they are you have to spend more money on useful units. If you don't ever phase out, then why did you (that one time)? I actually have never heard of a necron player complaining of phase out until just now. I think it is a cool, flavorful drawback that leads to interesting games. Something I can complain about is deepstriking monoliths and the mishap table.

What? Warriors come in the battalions, which means for 30$ more than just destroyers, you get 28 warriors + 7 scarabs. Thats not expensive.

Monoliths, Tomb Spyders, Destroyers, C'tan, Lords, Pariahs, and sometimes Immortals.
(note the comparison of options is 1 to 6.5)

If you're using that mentality might as well include flayed ones, wraiths, and warriors. So you include them all in your list? Because i have just as many options as you, i just dont like some of them.

While the majority of this comment makes no sense on your part, my answer(s) is:
C'tan, Tomb Spyders, Pariahs, Lords, and sometimes other things, depending on the situation. Note again the ratio: 1 to 4.5.

You said lords were a waste of points. Tomb spyders arent all that great, pariahs... still very iffy. As i said I'd rather have warriors than a Ctan.

WD40 wrote:Vulkanmech?
The flamers arent a threat, but the meltas + thunderhammers are. Its not like the Ctan will be that effective.

Again, this makes no sense, but I will try to explain why. Meltas can't kill t5 necrons outright. Thunderhammers have to roll an average of 4 attacks against a c'tan to wound it once, so a full terminator assault squad might do...2 wounds (if rolling above average) before they are all dead.

Wtf? you just repeated what i said about the metlas. The thunderhammers can damage the ctan. did you take into account that they reroll to hit (mastercrafted, right?). The deciever shouldnt be taking wounds from them, but the nightbringer should be able to get widdled down. Why not just not get in combat with it, and shoot the ctan with meltas?
You didnt answer what you would do.

I've yet to see a lash sorcerer. Daemon princes, on the other hand, are quite commonplace.

Why did you ask me about this list, if you yourself have never seen it? Retorical question.
You didnt answer what you would do.

All cavalry daemons with rending. Look it up if you don't know.

You didnt answer what you would do.

The danger of ravenwing is not in their higher toughness. It is with their scoring land speeders, combat squadded bikes, and scoring attack bikes. Your army is slow to react, and thus a ravenwing army would contest every objective at the end of a game, forcing a tie at best.

You didnt answer what you would do.

Why shouldn't necrons be in tournaments? I used a weighted evaluation system to discern the top armies at ard boyz this year, and necrons are 4th (orks are 5th, btw).

Orks and eldar made every slot in the top 30 except for 4 or 5 right? Necrons didnt place. You think the codex needs an update. That could be a reason.

You deal with objectives by contesting one with big D, and using your monoliths late game to 'sling shot' your warriors into objective positions. Or they just walk to the objectives if you were smart and placed as many near the board edges as possible.

Theres inconsistancy with your posts. I guess if im saying this, youre just gonna go and find all of the inconsistancy in mine.

If my opponent outflanked a charge into my Deceiver, I would laugh in their face. If they manage to outflank your warriors, then you sent them after the objectives too early. You wait until the last turn, so any outflankers will have already come in.

The Deveiver had nothing to do with it, and not MY warriors. I keep everything 18'' away from the sides. This wasnt my post, it was a response to someone elses.

By your own admission, necrons as you play them have trouble with "any assault army." The list I play doesn't. And these lists are competitive, so they are geared towards the meta. The meta right now is mech. Even so, these lists not only work against mech, they also do well against everything else. That's why they are good.

What is your list? WE've spend this time just flaming eachother. I gave my tactics, of fielding lots of Necron units, with some heavy destroyers as anti tank, and tomb spyders to keep the WBB coming. You havent said any tactics besides using every unit in the necron codex with the exception of flayed ones and wraiths.

Play a few more games on vassal, or against experienced armies, and I think you'll see just how stark the contrast is between the difficulty of winning with each of these two schools of thought.

This was a double post, and i didnt know how to delete it. ='(

It is late, so I will have to finish this post in the tomorrow. Some quick notes in the meantime:

I often use "you" as an advisory noun, as in "necron players in general should." It''s just easier to type "you."

My math was bad on the list phase out and I apologize for that. The phase out number is actually 8 and thus 26 necrons would need to be felled before the army would be remoed from phase out.

I have seen through your dedication to the posts that you are not trolling, as I had suspected. I'm sorry if my posts seemed overly inflammatory; I had assumed I was talking to someone who wasn't listening.

Finally, my army list is not perfect. If it was I wouldn't have felt the need to change it and would not have lost twice. I just find that the success of the list is quite telling.

My list for ard boyz (2500pts), btw, is this:

Deceiver
Lord with Shroud, Orb, Warscythe, Pulse

Warriors (20)

Immortals (10)
Pariahs (10)

Destroyers (8)

Monoliths (2)
Tomb Spyders (3)

Interesting list, probably pretty refreshing to see you walk into the club, and have Pariahs. Idk anyone who uses them. No offense, and please dont take any, but i dont think that in this stage of my 40king, i could be that comfortable with running 55 models in a 2500 pt list.

I would use:
Lord w/ Orb + VoD
Immortals (10)
Warriors (40 or 50)
Destroyers (15 or 12)
H. Destroyers (6 or 9)
Tomb Sypders (3 or 0)
(more warriors/less destroyers, or more h. destroyers/no t sypders is where i was getting at for the options)

Phase out when 54 are dead. (Or 61 with the adjustments). Your list phases out when 30 get killed, and i think its weak. If it works, then it works.

What would be a problem with my list? I have a solid core for grabbing objectives and providing concentrated fire where needed. I can keep stuff 18'' away from the sides to protect from out flanking. I have anti-tank (by that i mean, can pen LRs). The immortals + destroyers are multi-functional to stall tanks/take out infantry (wish destoroyers were AP3, but thats what the lord is for). The tomb spyders can give everyone wbb rolls. My list has 3x the firepower as yours.

The only difference is you have a c'tan and some templates. The deciever wont do any good against stuff that has 5+ iniative, which would be templar termies w/ Furious charge, genestealers, scorpions etc. With most armies being fearless, his powers are stupid, except for Grand Illusion which is sorta unreliable. Honestly i think my list is way more capeable against assault armies like orks, etc. And really, a tau player can have 9 railguns at that point, IG and SMs can pack lascannons, and Eldar have thier Fire prisms, all to deal with monoliths.

Your only way to deal with a LR is pariahs, and the ocasional blast from the monoliths, and i cant see how thats effective when anyone in thier right mind with a LR knows not to get them within 13'' of pariahs. If the vehicle moves, then the pariahs wont hit 1/2 of the time, or will get reduced to 1/6 of what they could do. Once they do hit, they need to roll a 10 or more to pen.

We were really talking about 1500 lists though. Or atleast i was T_T, which is pretty much a completley different story.

Now that i see that you're actually human and not trying to flame me, i dont have to use sarcastic remarks anymore. Glad we got over this hill. Why would you think i was trolling? I have necrons written all over me, the WD40 is for lubing them up when they get rusty.

WD40 wrote:Thats great and everything but immortals cost 13$ each, correct?

Even worse here in Australia I think they're around $22-25 each. Thats why I never buy stuff from the GW shop itself and just buy online.

Sorry. =( I'm converting some. All you need is 2 guns + a warrior + some greenstuff. You cut the arm off of one of the guns, and attach it upside-down on the on top of the one he's carring. Then you switch the little blade around at the bottom so its pointing forward, and scuplt bigger shoulders.

WD40 wrote:Interesting list, probably pretty refreshing to see you walk into the club, and have Pariahs. Idk anyone who uses them. No offense, and please dont take any, but i dont think that in this stage of my 40king, i could be that comfortable with running 55 models in a 2500 pt list.

I would use:
Lord w/ Orb + VoD
Immortals (10)
Warriors (40 or 50)
Destroyers (15 or 12)
H. Destroyers (6 or 9)
Tomb Sypders (3 or 0)
(more warriors/less destroyers, or more h. destroyers/no t sypders is where i was getting at for the options)

Phase out when 54 are dead. (Or 61 with the adjustments). Your list phases out when 30 get killed, and i think its weak. If it works, then it works.

What would be a problem with my list? I have a solid core for grabbing objectives and providing concentrated fire where needed. I can keep stuff 18'' away from the sides to protect from out flanking. I have anti-tank (by that i mean, can pen LRs). The immortals + destroyers are multi-functional to stall tanks/take out infantry (wish destoroyers were AP3, but thats what the lord is for). The tomb spyders can give everyone wbb rolls. My list has 3x the firepower as yours.

The only difference is you have a c'tan and some templates. The deciever wont do any good against stuff that has 5+ iniative, which would be templar termies w/ Furious charge, genestealers, scorpions etc. With most armies being fearless, his powers are stupid, except for Grand Illusion which is sorta unreliable. Honestly i think my list is way more capeable against assault armies like orks, etc. And really, a tau player can have 9 railguns at that point, IG and SMs can pack lascannons, and Eldar have thier Fire prisms, all to deal with monoliths.

Your only way to deal with a LR is pariahs, and the ocasional blast from the monoliths, and i cant see how thats effective when anyone in thier right mind with a LR knows not to get them within 13'' of pariahs. If the vehicle moves, then the pariahs wont hit 1/2 of the time, or will get reduced to 1/6 of what they could do. Once they do hit, they need to roll a 10 or more to pen.

We were really talking about 1500 lists though. Or atleast i was T_T, which is pretty much a completley different story.

Now that i see that you're actually human and not trying to flame me, i dont have to use sarcastic remarks anymore. Glad we got over this hill. Why would you think i was trolling? I have necrons written all over me, the WD40 is for lubing them up when they get rusty.

Yes, pariahs are a personal choice, as I do enjoy them so. Your argument about the Deceiver also applies to your entire list, which is actually even slower. Also, you can't furious charge the Deceiver unless he lets you. Deceive ignores fearless. You'd be surprised how useful and easy it is to pin a maxed out termagaunt swarm with ld 5. Any shots that hit the Deceiver are not against my crons, so I'm fine with him taking some hits. Railguns are only so useful, and they die very quickly in assault and to destroyers. BTW, the universal tau maxim for tactics against necrons is "don't play against them."

I have destroyed land raiders with the following units in my army:
All of them.

1500 lists are a different story, yes, but not completely different. The same basic tactics still hold at lower points games.

I thought you were trolling because you used rather silly arguments in some cases, as well as tactics I and most other necron players on the net dismissed a while ago. For example,

Not if you have reserves, are teleporting necrons, or i think the turn you deeprstike. Deepstriking means no shots on turn 1 + 2, maybe 3. Reserves means turn 4. Turn 5 is open, but you probably want to sling shot the warriors that youve been hiding because theres the risk of turn 6 not happening. Tell me if thats wrong, beacuse i think that means you wont get to use the ordinance weapon.

This quote has many issues. To start, you can use either the particle whip or the teleportation feature of the monolith as soon as it deep strikes, not one or two turns afterward. Even so, the reserves thing is rather confusing because this quote comes right after one about how you can't keep units in reserve. There are many others like this that show that you have missed some key elements of necron rules and tactics in certain areas. Disagreeing that mathammer works is another thing that makes me wonder about what it is exactly that you consider to be useful or good.

I'd honestly like to see your list in action. Do you have any battle reports or pics you can share? I ask this because your tactics for the most part fly in the face of the majority of the online necron community. Perhaps we're all just doing it wrong, though, send me what you've got.

As a random side note, I forgot that kill points were being used in that tie I mentioned, so I actually won rather handily. Facepalm.

There was an arguement that you couldnt shoot the turn you deepstriked because that counts as moving at cruising speed, and i just noticed that it says you MAY choose to bring the warriors from reserve. Sorry.

The way i use my list is pretty much the way my entire LGC plays necrons, as well as everyone on 40k forums. I probably heard "you can never have too many warriors" at least 4 times today.

I played a game today with a 1280ish list. It was a 1244 pt game (we were playing to the point values of my nid friend who had brought the smallest amount of models), but my partner didnt know what to do for 60 points so i compensated by adding some to mine. it was as follows:

Lord w/ veil of darkness @ 160
Immortals x10 @ 280
Warriors x30 @ 540
Destroyers x 6@ 300
Total: 1280

We depolyed first. The table was set up with the city terrain that gw always has, and we set it up so that it is roughly uniform. We deployed pitched battle, on an objective game with 5 objectives. I deployed with my immortals + lord on the center left, one unit of warriors on the right (but roughly 2 feet from the edge), another on the left (again, 2 feet from the edge), and one ceter right. The destroyers i hid behind a terrain peice to kinda confuse them. Usually people forget that they move so fast. My partner, a templar player, had a LR of assault terminators on the far left, a lascannon predator on the far right, and 2 crusader squads in bettween his tanks + my warriors.

The enemy ended up depolying as follows: Warriors screened by gaunts on their center left. Broadside 1, sniper team 1, and commander in the center. Hammerhead, sniper team 2, and gunfex 1 on the left. Screamer killer + gunfex two were on the center right, all the fire warriors + 1 broadside were on the far right. There were 2 units of stealth drone teams that infiltrated into buildings.

Turn 1: I teleported the unit of immortals so that they were now center right. I moved the destroyers out of cover placing one unit to the side of the immortals, and another behind it. Moved all the warriors up. On turn 1 i killed all of the gaunts + all of the warriors, getting rid of the Nid player's synapse entirely, and the lascannon predator killed the gunfex.

In return the hammerhead got 11 wounds with the template and another 4 with the burst cannons on the unit of immortals, and i made all of my saves except 1. The template also hit 1 destroyer and 2 warriors, who failed thier saves. One warrior got IKed by a venom cannon. The sniper teams knocked down 3 of the immortals.

Turn 2: none of the immortals got back up and neither did the destroyer. In my experience, the warriors ALWAYS do. I teleported the immortals over to where the fire warriors were and took out 8 of them before assaulting them later that turn (where then the unit of immortals sweeped them. Thats right). I moved one unit of destroyers to kill the 2nd unit of 12 fire warriors, killing 6 of them. That unit failed thier LD test. The other unit of destroyers moved to take on the broadside, and didnt get any glances. Damn disruption fields. I then moved my warriors on the sides to take the objectives in the buildings, completley forgetting the nid player had genestealers. That ruined the game for me. Not because the necrons are bad, i just made an error, that i shouldnt have made. (up to this point the crusader squads just ran forward)

In return on turn 2, the predator got immobilized, and the 2 units of genestealers outflanked on opposite sides. The land raider exploded, but every terminator made thier saves except for 1 with a storm shield. =( The sniper teams took out some of the crusader squads, and the genestealers assaulted the necron warriors. The left side got swept by the genestealers, and the side on the right made a ld test of 3 lol, so they stayed on combat. I gave my nid friend the idea to assault necron destroyers with a gunfex, so he managed to do that, killing 2 of them (after he killed one with a VC), but also taking 1 wound. The CC fex assaulted a crusader squad and got mamed, and i think a unit of gaunts passed thier ld test after coming back in with without number, so it assaulted the other crusader squad and got mamed too.

Turn 3: The steath drone teams lost the fusion blasters do dangerous terrain tests. The terminators assaulted the genestealers, killing all of them and taking no casaulties. The combat on the right was resolved, no necron survived. My victorious immortals killed a sniper team, so that the crusdaer squad could assault the now rallied 6 remaining fire warriors. They did, and killed them all.

The genestealers on the right, moved forward and fleeted 6'', so 3 of them managed to reach my unit of 2 destroyers in the assault. The gunfex that had assaulted the unit of destroyers, moved on to the unit of warriors in the center. The genestealers took out the destroyers, and the gunfex took out 1 warrior, but then took another wound.

Turn 4: The immortals pop over to where the genestealers are and kill them outright. The enemy has no scoring units now. The 2 crusader squads occupy objectives, and we've decided just to make them go to ground in order to surivive 2 rounds of shooting The gunfex kills a warrior, and gets me to the phase out limit, but after he takes anouther wound. *evil laugh*

The hammerhead is still around. The crusader squad managed to kill the sniper team on the right in an assault, leaving the center team, the 2 broadsides, the hammerhead, and 2 members from each stealth team left on the enemy side of the board. The sniper team is out of range, the broadsides move so they can try to get a LoS, and the hammerhead inflicts a casualty.

Turn 5: I phase out, the crusdaer squads go to ground

The enemy shoots

Turn 6: we roll a 5, and it happens. Same thing as turn 6, except that all of the templars are dead now.

The enemy has been relying on gaunts for the bast 5 turns to pass LD tests to claim objectives, unsucsessfully.

Result: 0 to 0, tie.

Im not so mad about the phaseing out because we managed to kill everything on the board before i did, and it was my fault that i did. I put the warriors dangerously close to the sides, to claim objectives on turn 2. i should have not moved, and just waited some of it out. Another lesson learned, was to move the destroyers, beacuse its better to not get a shot off for 1 turn, then to have the whole unit get destroyed in assault. If it was 1500 points i would have taken h. destroyers do kill the broadsides + the hammerhead.

If immortals can assault tau, then i wouldnt need to use pariahs. I needed the lord for teleport. The deceiver could have taken out the broadsides, however, i'd rather put the points into h. destroyers + tomb sypders.

I don't have time to get in to a real discussion WD40.

But here is my biggest gripe.

Necrons that are swept (IE get sweeping advanced) CANNOT WBB NOT MATTER WHAT. It doesn't matter if you have another squad with 6" of the same type, playing RAW says necrons that are swept are dead. Period.

When you take this in to account your entire list crumples, as your stratagey is based off of false pretenses, sorry to sound like a dick, but you've been cheating every game you've played.

Once you are forced to adjust and play RAW, you will quickly realise large amounts of warriors are totally usesless and borderline suicidal.

Take care.

Honeslty, a GW employee told me that you can. And it makes sense. The wbb rule says that the wbb models are IGNORED FOR ALL PURPOSES. So if they die before they get swept, then theyre still around for a wbb if theres another guy within 6'' The models that are already dead arent getting swept. *sigh*

Another arguement can be made, because the wbb rule says that if the model would be ruduced to 0 wounds or OTHERWISE BE REMOVED AS A CASUALTY, then the wbb rules apply. The sweeping advances say that the unit cant be saved unless otherwise specified, which the wbb rule kinda did. I still dont play that they can wbb after a sweeping advance, but still, an arguement can be made. So i havent been cheating.

If you have a problem with the first point, I havent ever had a unit within 6'' of one that got swept, so ive never gotten the change to wbb the models that died before a sweep. Ill get some tomb spyders, and then it'll happen. Except for the rending on those damn genestealers....

Frankly i dont think theres anything to discuss.

Take care yourself.

GW employees are not exactly known for knowing their own rules, redshirts even more so.

If you want to house rule it and play like that, fine, more power to ya.

But you are not playing RAW, you are breaking the rules, sorry to burst your bubble.

I am playing the rules... what is wrong with the way i am playing?

Necrons that die before a sweep happens get a wbb because they are ignored for everything except wbb (if there is a like model within 6'' or a tomb spyder within 12'' and another like unit on the board)

Necrons that get sweeped dont get a wbb.

I'm sorry, you are playing right, I misunderstood you.