Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm just getting back into playing 40k from a very long hiatus and I'm trying to find a competitive Eldar list that I'd like to play, what I've come up with is two options that I would appreciate some criticism, options and tactic ideas from for the current 40k environment. I've pulled some great conversion ideas for some jetbike conversion from these pages so figured it would be a good idea to get you alls feedback on the actual army. For your approval:

List option (1):

Autarch
Jetbike, Mandiblasters, Laser Lance, Fusion Gun
Autarch
Jetbike, Mandiblasters, Laser Lance, Fusion Gun

6 x Guardian Jetbikes w/ 2 Shrieker Cannons
Warlock on Jetbike w/ Witchblade & Conceal
6 x Guardian Jetbikes w/ 2 Shrieker Cannons
Warlock on Jetbike w/ Witchblade & Conceal
6 x Guardian Jetbikes w/ 2 Shrieker Cannons
Warlock on Jetbike w/ Witchblade & Conceal
6 x Guardian Jetbikes w/ 2 Shrieker Cannons
Warlock on Jetbike w/ Witchblade & Conceal


5 x Shining Spears
Exarch w/ Star Lance
5 x Shining Spears
Exarch w/ Star Lance

Fire Prism
Holo Field, Spirit Stone
Fire Prism
Holo Field, Spirit Stone
Falcon Grav Tank
Bright Lance

List Option (2):

Autarch
Jetbike, Mandiblasters, Laser Lance, Fusion Gun
Farseer
Jetbike, Runes of Warding, Singing Spear, Fortune
5x Warlock Retinue (Jetbikes, 5 x Witchblades, 2 x Enhance, 2 x Embolden, Destructor)

6 x Guardian Jetbikes w/ 2 Shrieker Cannons
6 x Guardian Jetbikes w/ 2 Shrieker Cannons
Warlock on Jetbike w/ Witchblade & Conceal
6 x Guardian Jetbikes w/ 2 Shrieker Cannons
Warlock on Jetbike w/ Witchblade & Conceal
6 x Guardian Jetbikes w/ 2 Shrieker Cannons
Warlock on Jetbike w/ Witchblade & Conceal

5 x Shining Spears
Exarch w/ Star Lance

Fire Prism
Holo Field, Spirit Stone
Fire Prism
Holo Field, Spirit Stone
Falcon Grav Tank
Bright Lance

The first thing I must do is point you to http://saimhann.blogspot.com/
That's The Way of Saim Hann blog, and has lots of useful advice on playing Jetbike Eldar competitively in 5th edition.

Personally, I like your list. I've never really run anything like it, so I don't know in practice how it would hold up. Shining Spears may be an issue. I havn't used them myself, and they seem like alot of fun to play, but I havn't really heard many good reviews of them. With a couple of Jetbike Autarchs attached (and acting as detachable punches lol) I can see them being pretty useful though. What you might want to do is try and free up 60 points so that you can stick 5 Dire Avengers (a DAVA) in the Falcon. This will make it a scoring unit, and a very fast and resilient scoring unit at that. You can use it to Tank Shock units on your opponent's objective, at best forcing them to fall back, and at worst getting death-or-gloried and losing the Falcon and all the Avengers inside it. Haha, realistically worst though is enemy units not falling back and you being forced to settle for a contest. Even if they pop the Falcon the DAs are still around, so you might get lucky and survive to contest.

The 2 Fire Prism's are good. Started using them recently myself, and they're very nice if you apply them correctly.

I'm unsure about all those Warlocks attached to Jetbike Squads. If I was going to run like that I think I'd give them all Destructor. There's an abundance of cover currently, so you shouldn't have any trouble getting a 4+ cover save, and you can always turbo boost for a 3+. You can even turbo boost with one unit, and they use the assault move of the other squads to hide behing the turbo boosted squad for a cover save. I think, though, that theDestructor 'locks would probably be more effective if you pulled them into a Jetbike Seer council. The Autarch could join this instead of the Shining Spears. Maybe rearrange your list a bit like this ...

Jetbike Autarch
Jetbike Farseer
Jetbike Warlocks 6+

2x 9 Jetbikes
DAVU

2 Fire Prisms
Falcon

Shining Spears/Banshees or Fire Dragons in a Wave Serpent/Whatever you have points for. If you're hooked on Saim Hann maybe try some of Fritz's tactics for using Vyper Squadrons effectively. My personal inclination is to an Aspect Warrior Squad or two mounted in Wave Serpents though. For 190 points you can get a practically guaranteed vehicle destroyed, in the form of 5 Fire Dragons (80 points) and a 110 point Wave Serpent.

Looking at your second list (it slipped under my radar somehow ...) I see you have a Jetbike Council in there. I'd be personally inclined to get Stones and Doom on your Farseer and go with Destructor Spam. Throw in one of each Embolden and Enhance, and add the Guardian Squad Warlocks to the Council. I'm pretty sure everything else I said applies though.
What do you think?

I'll take your advice on checking out the Saim Hann blog for pointers. I have a rather large Eldar army with pretty much any option I would choose to run (I've had them since early 3rd edition). With recent games and such I really wanted to play a Jetbike army vs. my everyone rides list. I haven't had a chance to actually test the effectiveness of anything besides the Seer council who I'm still trying to use effectively.

The only problem I see with the Dire Avengers squad is that it would take the place of a Jetbike squad ( or some of the attached warlocks) and be less models with less Toughness and less armor save, and slower outside the tank.

Thanks for the comments, helps the thought process. And I'm a Saim Hann junky, I played the army list back when it was a craftworld book

The way I see the Dire Avengers was that they wouldn't actually disembark. Ever. Just keep them in the Falcon where they can't be targetted. That way they're actually more resilient than Jetbikes, as they can't be targetted by small arms fire at all. 'Course if you tend to lose the Falcon quite a bit then that strategy might not work for you. A thought just came to mind that you could run with Banshees or Dragons in the Falcon if you weren't worried about the lack of scoring units. I only field 2 and 1750 and 3 at 2500, 'cos you can contest with anything (Fire Prisms, Falcons, Seer Council) and then you just target the troops at the objective/s that you want to hold.

By the way, if you're wanting to play for a bit of fluff rather than pure effectiveness, then don't let me discourage you from the Shining Spears. They can be used as a kind of substitute Seer Council if you run them with a Jetseer or they can work in tandem with the Council. Maybe you'll discover a really killy way to field them ...

I have a friend (Templar player) who hasn't played since 3rd, but is keen to get back into it. Any tips on how to break 5th to him? I'm not actually all that familair with 3rd (although I do have a 3rd ed rulebook) so I'm not 100% sure on what's changed since th

The jet council version is probably going to be more competitive, perhaps run the autarch with the council to boost its cc punch. Shining spears tend to be a bit fragile and dont really provide a good home for the autarch if your opponent decides to target it for fire.

Giving your bike squad warlocks embolden rather than conceal might be a good idea. The leadership on the bike squads is iffy enough that embolden will keep them in the game a lot longer.

Dont run a falcon if you are only using it as a tank. The falcon is overpriced purely as a tank, either give it some DA to make it a scoring unit as previously suggested or drop it for another prism. Three prisms is not too much since you will only rarely want to tl their shots anyway. Prisms are the best eldar units for popping open monoliths, and arent bad on LRs.

Your AT is a bit low, a serpent with fire dragons would give you a can opener for those heavy armor units that are now so popular. A pair of prisms TLing their shots also is good, but with the number of tanks being played now more AT is always a good thing.



Sliggoth

Yeah I think I like the jet council list a little better then I like the double Autarch list. What about dropping the Shining Spears for some Falcon mounted Fire Dragons and some Vypers? Would add some needed AT and still keep with the overall Theme of the list. I've never really been all that succesful with Shining Spears but I haven't played them in this edition.

Course there is always dropping the Shining Spears for a WS and Fire Dragon unit but that's a heck of a lot of points, I don't think the Shining Spears will cover a full squad. I don't know about the Embolden idea, I'll have to play with the least I guess to find the better combo of Psychic powers with the Jet bikes. I'm pretty aggressive with them, which is why I was thinking of the Conceal but Destructor is really tempting.

As for advice on conversion from 3rd edition to 5th, I haven't played in so long that I've forgotten most of the rules for 3rd but my best advice is start from the ground up like a brand new player. I get conflicted in my thinking allot cause I'll remember an old rule that doesn't pertain anymore to the current game.

What is the usual size of the jetbike seer council? I've been going with 5 warlocks but not sure.

A fire dragon squad in a serpent shouldnt be too large of a squad, so could be as cheap as 180 points if need be.


On size of a jet council: bigger is better. Its a good idea to take one enhance jetlock, a couple emboldens, and a few destructor. Warlocks dont have to take a power either, so you can run a few just for the swords/ bodies. Always take two emboldnes, because its quite possible that you will take enough fire to have to take saves on all models in the unit, and it would be really bad to lose the one embolden jetlock early.

Sliggoth

I run 190 point Fire Dragons (cannon, stones, x5 dragons). They rock. So cheap you can afford to run a couple if need be. I've never found the 5+ granted by Conceal to be worth it. If you're set on Warlocks in the Jetbike squads I would use Destructor. If you havn't been that successful with Spears in the past then I don't know that they'd be a very good choice in 5th either.

Sliggoth wrote: Prisms are the best eldar units for popping open monoliths

Fire Dragons with Tank Hunters for me.

I say, try the first list (2xS-spears) but switch the falcon for a fire prism, it's a lot more versatile, with a better range to help protect it.

Very cool, unusual sounding army, good luck with it!

I don't know about running 3 fire prisms, I only own one as is and that's not assembled. I'd have to buy two of em instead of just the one and I already own 2 Falcons.

I am a tad intrigued by the idea of just taking the Warlocks out of the jetbike squads and adding it the the jet seer squad, would be more survivable and increase the points denile for that unit while not costing the Bike squads too much.

I have a nice Jet Far Seer model I've been working on, yoinked a couple of ideas from other websites. It's a standard jetbike with the Guardian weapon plateform sides on the back to make it appear more like a throne. The High Elf Archmage plastic model on hourse with part of the robe removed to fit on the bike. Dire Avenger head with the plume and chin to look more like a Farseer head, and the dire avenger spear weapon arm for the Singing Spear. Hopefully I can get some in process pictures up so you can see it.