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I was looking at the rule book and the "What you see is what you get" rule seemed very odd too me. It also seemed like something that i should capitalize on. I was wondering how far i could take it in both tournament and casual games.

Could you be a bit more specific as to what you are asking?

Most people see it as more of a restriction than an exploit.

So perhaps I am missing something too. . .

You could carve little lasers into the rings of Inquisitor model to represent digital weapons. You could also put grenades on your Space Marines.

You have the power!!!

The WYSIWYG gaming convention does not allow you to get free upgrades by simply modeling them on... it just forces you to model the upgrades if you want to pay the points to use them.

I personally have always said any upgrades must be modeled.

Basic gear is more fuzzy since you technically can't not equip it on your character. So I guess if you miss a piece of basic gear, then technically your model isn't allowed to be played in a true WYSIWYG tournament, but I doubt anyone would call you on that.

Typically, it is for if someone has a marine with a bolter and calls it a plasma gun. Or if someone has a regular farseer and claims they are on a bike.

I usually allow people with a model with say, a melta gun to call it a bolter or a squad of genestealers to have feedertindrils as long as a couple in the squad actually have them.

This is all strictly tournament of course. Friendly games I'l allow a full squad of dire avengers to be firewarriors... we like to proxy armies before we buy them.

willydstyle wrote:The WYSIWYG gaming convention does not allow you to get free upgrades by simply modeling them on... it just forces you to model the upgrades if you want to pay the points to use them.

QFT

I believe this is the misconception the OP was having. Problem solved!

DoW

For this rule can you have characters like Telion and Shrike in one army. And can you even use them with all their abilities while having the same scheme on both of them.

Thelaugher could probably get this thread going in the right direction better if he actually contributed *wink* But I guess I'll have a stab at it.

From his tone, I think the OPs intent was more to pull it out in a game to be TFG. As in: "lol, I don't see a ccw and pistol on your CSMs, no bonus attack for you, lol." If this is the case, your opponent can always point out that the WYSIWYG "rule" only actually references the upgrade options for characters. I put rule in quotes because the whole thing is in a grey box which usually represents footnotes or guidlines rather than hard rules.

Deffgob wrote:Thelaugher could probably get this thread going in the right direction better if he actually contributed *wink* But I guess I'll have a stab at it.

From his tone, I think the OPs intent was more to pull it out in a game to be TFG. As in: "lol, I don't see a ccw and pistol on your CSMs, no bonus attack for you, lol." If this is the case, your opponent can always point out that the WYSIWYG "rule" only actually references the upgrade options for characters. I put rule in quotes because the whole thing is in a grey box which usually represents footnotes or guidlines rather than hard rules.

Ah good point. Is is a good thing that it doesn't even cross my mind to intentionally be TFG? Or bad that I'm just that oblivious?

Then again, an unintentional TFG is still TFG. Hmm.

In regards to Telion/Shrike/Calgar etc, I believe there is a bit in the SM codex that mentions how to use special and unique characters. It essence you can field whomever you want in whatever chapter you want (provided there isn't a specific rule that disallows it - certain army point values for instance) provided you do not alter their wargear in any way. You can even make up your own names for your own, personal models so you don't have to justify Ultramarines getting far too friendly with Salamanders etc.

DoW

Thelaugher wrote:For this rule can you have characters like Telion and Shrike in one army. And can you even use them with all their abilities while having the same scheme on both of them.

WYSIWYG has no bearing on having both Telion and Shrike in one army. WYSIWYG is about having wargear upgrades physically modeled on your figures.

If by scheme you mean color scheme, you can paint your army any color scheme you want. There are no rules governing what colors your figures must be. It's entirely up to you.

There are no rules governing what colors your figures must be. It's entirely up to you.

Unless you're playing Ultramarines. Then they must be blue. If they aren't, GW will come to your house.




And they won't be pleased...

DoW

DogOfWar wrote:

There are no rules governing what colors your figures must be. It's entirely up to you.

Unless you're playing Ultramarines. Then they must be blue. If they aren't, GW will come to your house.




And they won't be pleased...

DoW

I am officially putting GW on notice that I am going to play Ultramarines, and they are not going to be blue. Now get over here to my house so I can kick you in the yambag for your pathetic quality rules. I'll give you a glass of water after to show I think your miniatures are great though!

+1 for 'yambag'

'yamsack' would also have been acceptable.

DoW

It is with the deepest sadness that I must inform you all that the user known as Kaaihn has passed away in a completely non-suspicious stair-related accident. Preliminary reports indicate that GW employees were nowhere near the scene of the accident, and that you'll be next if you say otherwise.

PIZZA PARTY!!!!!

I mean... my sincerest condolences to Kaaihn's miniatures

DoW

BGB pg 47 "Characters" chapter wrote:Character models in particular tend to have a lot of options as to what weapons and wargear they can use – given in the army list of their Codex. The rule is that such equipment must be visually represented on the model so your opponents can clearly see what they are facing.

So yes, you must show upgraded weapons options on your characters. Is this rule reiterated for regular units as well - anyone?*

*Note: I am not being, nor wanting to be TFG, but I can't seem to find WYSIWYG for non-character rules... please, please tell me I've overlooked them!

As an aside, it also seems that the exception about grenades has been dropped. I've got some gluing to do

Sometimes im lazy , or i might not like how something looks , so i give my units some generic weapons that can be considered anything from a distance.

And i carry extra paper + large marker , if people get confused , i take the sheet of paper and write what exactly it is , and place it on the unit's head lol

Thanks for all the post, I think this info will help out quite a bit.

How closely WYSWIG is followed is something that is dependant on your gaming group.

Some people are happy with proxy models all day long (this dreadnaught is a monolith but this other dreadnaught is a destroyer lord, etc) other's don't use them at all.

Personally, all of models have all of their upgrades shown and all upgrades shown are purchased for them.

What about upgrades that don't have any real visual representation? Good examples would be Digital Weapons, or Hellfire rounds. Even a Relic Blade can be said to be a Power Sword instead.

Or what about the inverse. I have a Hunter-Killer on my Land Raider, but I just say "it is empty, so I can't use it." or something.

Just your opinions. I haven't been playing long, but the group I play with is pretty lenient on it as long as you declare it.

Relic blades should be distinct from power weapons in some way as they are very different weapons.

Digital weapons and hellfire rounds are pretty small upgrades but both can be modeled. (digi weps just need small nodules on the 2nd knuckle, for hellfire round give the gun a mag which shows bolt rounds through a slot on the side and paint the cases a bright colour or paint the mag baseplate)

... or you can show on your army roster that the model paid for the upgrade. Modeling something so specific and tiny is silly, especially since you would never expect your opponant to figure it out without pointing it out to him earlier.

There was a thread about modeling the veteran skill "true grit" so that it was WYSIWYG a little while ago. The general concensus seemed to be "Just tell him, and hand him a copy of your army list if he asks." So long as your opponant can reasonably differentiate what is what, you should be fine.

I agree with Wehrkind, but only as long as my opponent makes a reasonable attempt at WYSIWYG (You know, special and heavy weapons, powerfists and so on).

I dont even mind if "this heavy bolter is actually a heavy flamer" as long as ALL equal-looking heavy bolters in the army is actually heavy flamers.

As for Chaos Marines, GW doesn't even make them WYSIWYG. Chaos Marines come with bolters, bolt pistols and CC weapons, but you'll be hard pressed to find any equipped thusly in the color sections of the Chaos Marine Codex.

IMHO WYSIWYG is an ideal to aim for, not a millstone round your neck.
In friendly games, you can work with anything, from
"This coke-can is a dreadnought, that 7Up can is a drop-pod",
through "All the Nobs in my Byz mobs have PKs, even though the models have Big Choppas"
and "Today, my predator will mainly be firing LasCannons (Ignore the flamers, they are special plasma-based fuel-cells to help focus the Las)"
to "No, you haven't got grenade pouches on the model, you fight at I1"

I've not been to tournaments, or played many people I don't know, but it seems like it is nice to glance at their figures and know what they are rather than keep asking
"What is that blue guy?"
and "How many of those guys have Flamers?"
(Although I am still new, and even full WYSIWYG, I have to ask "what is that gun?", "Are those guys Scouts?", "WTF IS THAAT??!?!?!?!?" )

I like WYSIWYG to be to the point of sensibility. Base stuff doesn't have to be modelled, extra stuff should, I will accept an impressive blade as a Relic Blade, power sword or normal CCW.

I love my characters for wysiwyg....

Where is this book of saint lucius you speak of? Under her cloak of course..

Where are her melta bombs? Under her cloak of course..

WYSIWYG only matters where individual equipment load out matters.

Loved Deffgob's post.