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My Leman Russ shined(is there an officail word for it?) its searchlight at an emeny vehicle.
However i wanted to shoot at some infantry.
Can i do that; shoot at a target that i did not shine?
I doesn't specify anywhere that I have read.
But i have a gut feeling that it is a big no.

As far as I can tell, there's no rule disallowing it. But how I try to play is that if I'm doing something that I feel guilty for pulling off, I don't bother.

Past tense of 'shine' can be 'shined' or 'shone', no worries.

I'm almost positive this has been answered (or debated before) but I looked it up myself because I was curious.

The rules for the Searchlight seem to imply that the Vehicle is acquiring a target as it would normally do in a Night Fight and do not let it choose a different target after illuminating the original target.

I would argue this is true because the following takes place:

1) You check LOS and pick a target (the vehicle you want to illuminate)
2) Night Fighting is in effect so you roll your 2D6 and multiply the result by 3 to see if you can 'see' the target you have picked.
3) Measure the range to your target and see if your 2D6x3 is equal to or greater than the distance.
4) If this is the case, the target is now illuminated with the search light.
5) Since you have already picked a target and measured range, you would not be allowed to fire upon a different target.

That's how I see it, but others may read differently.

DoW

DoW is completely right, I was posting under the influence again. The rules for a spotlight say that it can be used on one target that the vehicle has spotted. In order to spot an enemy unit during night-fighting, you have to have already chosen it as your target.

IG Codex Pg 71 wrote:It must still use the night fighting rules to pick a target, but having acquired the target, will illuminate it with the searchlight

BGB Pg 95 wrote:After selecting a target, but before a unit fires, a check needs to be made to see if the firers can clearly spot their target through the darkness. [...] If the distance between the firing unit and their target is higher than the total rolled, the unit cannot fire at all.

Since you need to pick your target and roll the night fighting dice to see if you can 'see' it before the searchlight takes effect, no, you may not select another target unless you normally are able to do so.

EDIT: Beaten to it x2!

DogOfWar wrote:Past tense of 'shine' can be 'shined' or 'shone', no worries.

I'm almost positive this has been answered (or debated before) but I looked it up myself because I was curious.

The rules for the Searchlight seem to imply that the Vehicle is acquiring a target as it would normally do in a Night Fight and do not let it choose a different target after illuminating the original target.

I would argue this is true because the following takes place:

1) You check LOS and pick a target (the vehicle you want to illuminate)
2) Night Fighting is in effect so you roll your 2D6 and multiply the result by 3 to see if you can 'see' the target you have picked.
3) Measure the range to your target and see if your 2D6x3 is equal to or greater than the distance.
4) If this is the case, the target is now illuminated with the search light.
5) Since you have already picked a target and measured range, you would not be allowed to fire upon a different target.

That's how I see it, but others may read differently.

DoW

Thanks DOW. You're a champ

What about using the searchlight, and then using smoke?

Sazzlefrats wrote:What about using the searchlight, and then using smoke?

No. You use smoke in the movement phase (at the end of the vehicle's move), which will prevent shooting in the shooting phase. And you have to be able to shoot to acquire a target and shine your spotlight on it.

don_mondo wrote:

Sazzlefrats wrote:What about using the searchlight, and then using smoke?

No. You use smoke in the movement phase (at the end of the vehicle's move), which will prevent shooting in the shooting phase. And you have to be able to shoot to acquire a target and shine your spotlight on it.

OH SHI---

*Buried under inevitable avalanche of flame*

I think that its the "Once you have measured" you have pretty much picked your target that does it.

don_mondo wrote:

Sazzlefrats wrote:What about using the searchlight, and then using smoke?

No. You use smoke in the movement phase (at the end of the vehicle's move), which will prevent shooting in the shooting phase. And you have to be able to shoot to acquire a target and shine your spotlight on it.

Unless of course your codex allows you to do it in another phase besides the movement phase. Codex trumps rulebook.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I wonder if a land raider could use it's search lights and use potms to shoot something? It's late and I am not dragging out my rules...

imweasel wrote:I wonder if a land raider could use it's search lights and use potms to shoot something? It's late and I am not dragging out my rules...

I don't see why it wouldn't be able to.

PoTMS allows the LR to target and engage a completely different unit with one weapon, right? Well as long as there are two separate rolls for Night Fighting I would imagine there's nothing stopping the LR crew from illuminating and firing at one target then PoTMS from firing at something else.

I might be missing something though.

DoW

DogOfWar wrote:

imweasel wrote:I wonder if a land raider could use it's search lights and use potms to shoot something? It's late and I am not dragging out my rules...

I don't see why it wouldn't be able to.

PoTMS allows the LR to target and engage a completely different unit with one weapon, right? Well as long as there are two separate rolls for Night Fighting I would imagine there's nothing stopping the LR crew from illuminating and firing at one target then PoTMS from firing at something else.

I might be missing something though.

DoW

Wouldn't both be illuminated?

Rule is pick a target, roll to see if you can see it, If you can you every one can see it next turn. PoTMS lets you fire at 2 targets (at the same time). So you pick targets roll to see if you can see them. If you can, then the target is illuminated.

Tri wrote:Wouldn't both be illuminated?

Rule is pick a target, roll to see if you can see it, If you can you every one can see it next turn. PoTMS lets you fire at 2 targets (at the same time). So you pick targets roll to see if you can see them. If you can, then the target is illuminated.

I think you're right, Tri.

I don't see anything that contradicts that reasoning other than a vehicles generally only have a single searchlight (at least as far as IG vehicles go) so it might be stretching it to say that a single light can illuminate two targets at what is supposed to be "the same time" in game terms.

But RAW says you can, as far as I can tell.

DoW

DogOfWar wrote:

Tri wrote:Wouldn't both be illuminated?

Rule is pick a target, roll to see if you can see it, If you can you every one can see it next turn. PoTMS lets you fire at 2 targets (at the same time). So you pick targets roll to see if you can see them. If you can, then the target is illuminated.

I think you're right, Tri.

I don't see anything that contradicts that reasoning other than a vehicles generally only have a single searchlight (at least as far as IG vehicles go) so it might be stretching it to say that a single light can illuminate two targets at what is supposed to be "the same time" in game terms.

But RAW says you can, as far as I can tell.

DoW

Do you give up your shooting in leiu of using a search light?

imweasel wrote:Do you give up your shooting in leiu of using a search light?

Nope. It's essentially an additional effect that takes place as a result of targeting.

All the normal rules for targeting apply, the only difference being that now the target is illuminated for the rest of the phase. Then you may fire whatever weapons you are normally allowed to fire at the target.

This is why it seems that PoTMS would let you illuminate two targets. The only restriction is that you are targeting something. This would lead me to believe that since you can target two different units, you can illuminate two different units.

Weird, but seems to be true.

My question is: If the vehicle has a searchlight, does it always HAVE to be used whenever you successfully roll for a Night Fight target? The wording in the rule doesn't seem to give you a choice in the matter.

DoW

DogOfWar wrote:

imweasel wrote:Do you give up your shooting in leiu of using a search light?

Nope. It's essentially an additional effect that takes place as a result of targeting.

All the normal rules for targeting apply, the only difference being that now the target is illuminated for the rest of the phase. Then you may fire whatever weapons you are normally allowed to fire at the target.

This is why it seems that PoTMS would let you illuminate two targets. The only restriction is that you are targeting something. This would lead me to believe that since you can target two different units, you can illuminate two different units.

Weird, but seems to be true.

My question is: If the vehicle has a searchlight, does it always HAVE to be used whenever you successfully roll for a Night Fight target? The wording in the rule doesn't seem to give you a choice in the matter.

DoW

I don't think potms would allow you to override the 'a weapon can only fire once in the shooting phase'. I don't know if you always have to use a searchlight.

With this line of thought, what 'str' would a searchlight be considered for shooting purposes?

Does a search light 'just work'? It doesn't even seem to be where you have to declare that you are actually using the search light. All you have to do is declare you are shooting and if you have range, everyone can shoot at it and the other side can shoot back at the searchlight equipped vehicles.

Hmmm...

DogOfWar wrote:

With this line of thought, what 'str' would a searchlight be considered for shooting purposes?

Why, ST 3 of course, just like any other flashlight...... errrrrr lasgun. Or maybe it's a 4 because it's a bigger 'flashlight'..............................

You CAN use searchlights after using smoke.

Smoke launchers specifically say a vehicle cannot fire any of its WEAPONS. A searchlight is not a weapon.

Coincidentally, passengers may also fire out of the top hatch or any other fire points after using smoke - they only forbid the vehicle using its weapons, unless I missed something amongst the passengers rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My real question is this: The chaos searchlight wording is different than the IG and SM searchlight wordings. Do they all still work the same?

C:IG and C:SM searchlights are the only two consistent wordings I have found.

The others all seem to vary - and so the rules for using them do too.

Spellbound wrote:You CAN use searchlights after using smoke.

Smoke launchers specifically say a vehicle cannot fire any of its WEAPONS. A searchlight is not a weapon.

Coincidentally, passengers may also fire out of the top hatch or any other fire points after using smoke - they only forbid the vehicle using its weapons, unless I missed something amongst the passengers rules.

I understand about passengers, but I'm not so sure about searchlights after smoke launchers. Would you not need an eligible 'weapon' to fire in order to even roll night fight distance?

It seems that dog is right, raw it's like a searchlight is automatically used when you roll for night fight.

Is there any reference to searchlights in the brb?

I agree with you about using the searchlight after popping smoke. The searchlight is only used after "... acquiring a target..." which is something you can not do if you can't shoot.

So if you have no weapons, you can't use a searchlight?

Sounds like it.

Yes.. I already had this entire argument with my bro. and we basically just argued over EVERYTHING that was written here. General consensus (and RAW) is that Search is a side effect to a weapon targeting at night. No weapon= no targeting therefore no light.