Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I was playing my IG against Tau and one of my units (Veteran Squad)was makerlighted for -1 to leadership after reducing my squads number by over 25%. I had Commisar Yarrick within 6 inches and was trying to invoke Yarrick's Aura of Discipline (Any friendly unit within 6" of Yarrick may use his leadership of 10 for any morale or pinning tests as well as leadership tests incurred by orders issued to the squad). Now the way I read is that a -1 leadership is marked on the the unit being marked, but because of Yarrick's Aura, can I make the moral checks off of Yarrick leadership unmodified because of that rule, or do they use Yarricks at the -1 leadership?

Ya I had a similar question before when using my PBS on a unit. My bro was playing BT and he can use his leaders leadership 10 from anywhere on the board instead of the units own. Does the unit now take no penaty from my PBS lowering there leadership.

Some people say that because the affected unit is using Yarrik's Leadership, and Yarrik is not affected, that they can test at Ld10.

Similarly these people claim that a unit of Space Marines affected by Soulless or Weaken Resolve can use their Captain's Ld10 if that Captain has Rites of Battle.

I argue to the contrary: that whatever Leadership that a unit is using is that unit's Leadership. I believe this opinion is supported by the rules for Leadership Tests on p.8 of the rulebook.

So if the unit is using Yarrk's Leadership, and whatever Leadership they're using is the unit's Leadership, and they have a -1 to their Leadership for being affected by a Markerlight, then they test against Ld9.

I would agree. You check the unit's Leadership, and then apply modifiers.

Substituting a different unit's Leadership is a part of that first step. You still apply modifiers afterwards.

One minor detail though. Markerlights can't be expended for the purpose of modifying the Ld used in morale tests (25+% losses). The only leadership based test they can modify is the pinning test caused by the attacking unit's fire.

I realize this would still be much the same situation, with Yarrick's Ld being used for pinning tests also, but i just thought i'd let you know. If your opponent was using it for the morale test, he's not playing quite correctly. A

Also (and i'm just going by the way you phrased it here) he would have to declare what he's using the markerlights for before rolling his 'to hit' rolls. This may have been what he did at that time, but your first sentence suggested to me that he used the markerlights after wounds and saves were taken. If that's not the case, then forget i said anything.

As for the question itself, i would play that his Ld gets modified just as if it were their own.

In the case of Rites of Battle you are targeting the squad, not the captain. So if the captain was attached to the squad then the leadership would be modifed but other than that then not.

It doesn't say unmodified in Yarrick's leadership rule, so it probably is modifiable. Compare to the WH's Book of St. Lucius, where it does say unmodified.

Wouldn't Mob Rule work under the same principles?

What principles?

Ridcully wrote:One minor detail though. Markerlights can't be expended for the purpose of modifying the Ld used in morale tests (25+% losses). The only leadership based test they can modify is the pinning test caused by the attacking unit's fire.

I realize this would still be much the same situation, with Yarrick's Ld being used for pinning tests also, but i just thought i'd let you know. If your opponent was using it for the morale test, he's not playing quite correctly. A

Also (and i'm just going by the way you phrased it here) he would have to declare what he's using the markerlights for before rolling his 'to hit' rolls. This may have been what he did at that time, but your first sentence suggested to me that he used the markerlights after wounds and saves were taken. If that's not the case, then forget i said anything.

As for the question itself, i would play that his Ld gets modified just as if it were their own.

I wasnt sure so I thought I would ask, I was fine either way, but just not sure as Yarrick was not the one being affected, but I could see the validity of either arguement. Ridcully, Where did you see that Markerlights cant be expended for the purpose of modifying the Ld used in morale tests? Thats basically what he was agruing its use and I would like to see that we all play correctly. I honestly thought that it was -1 until the end of my turn, but it would be nice if it was not applied to 25% losses.....

Thanks again guys

s2ua7 wrote:I wasnt sure so I thought I would ask, I was fine either way, but just not sure as Yarrick was not the one being affected, but I could see the validity of either arguement. Ridcully, Where did you see that Markerlights cant be expended for the purpose of modifying the Ld used in morale tests? Thats basically what he was agruing its use and I would like to see that we all play correctly. I honestly thought that it was -1 until the end of my turn, but it would be nice if it was not applied to 25% losses.....

Thanks again guys

The five possible uses of expending markerlight counters are detailed on p29 of his Tau codex. The fifth dot point states that they can "impose a -1 Leadership penalty on the marked unit for the purposes of any Pinning test imposed by the firing unit's shooting". There is no mention of morale tests and the modifier only affects a pinning test created from that unit's fire (it isn't a -1Ld for all pinning tests until the end of the turn). The unit declares what they're using the markerlight counter for, then rolls to hit as normal, then removes the counter.

The counters can sit next to the unit the end of the shooting phase or until they are used.

An example of this would be:
A unit of 4 pathfinders fire their markerlights at the IG unit. 2 markerlights successfully hit, and two counters are subsequently placed next to the IG unit.

A unit of firewarriors armed with pulse carbines (pinning weapons) decides they will fire at the IG unit, and so declare before their 'to hit' rolls that they will use both markerlight counters to reduce the IG unit's Ld (by 2) if a pinning test occurs. The firewarriors roll to hit, remove the counters, then roll to wound. The IG unit ends up taking an unsaved wound and so does a pinning test at -2 Ld. If they hadn't taken any wounds against pinning weapons, then no pinning test would occur and the markerlight counters were expended for nothing.

Rather a good argument in favour of taking some Pulse Carbines.

Awesome, thanks for the help guys Its good to know that we (my buddy and I) were both wrong on this... lol... Kinda evens out everything...

Nurglitch wrote:Rather a good argument in favour of taking some Pulse Carbines.

Perhaps against IG. Against MEq the BS3 and AP5 means you're less likely to inflict an unsaved pinning wound, which could potentially mean you wasted valuable markerlight counters for nothing. I much prefer having the extra shots or range that you get with pulse rifles. If i was shooting rail rifles at MEqs, i'd be more inclined to modify their Ld.

I edited my last post with the example though.

Nurglitch wrote:What principles?

Orks use the size of their unit as Leadership.

If Leadership from the commissar was unmodified, it would presumably be unmodified for the orks too. (Which is why I think that would be strange.)

Nurglitch wrote:Rather a good argument in favour of taking some Pulse Carbines.

I take it as an argument to NOT take Carbines. Using two units firing to (maybe) prevent one unit from firing next turn=inefficient as HELL!

Unless, you know, you're using something like a Skyray that can split its firepower. That's one of the Tau's great strengths, is being able to split their firepower as well as concentrate it.

Or use Marklight Drones attached to a unit of Firewarriors entirely armed with Pulse Carbines, in which case you only need one unit.

Considering that the Tau don't have any fast-moving assault troops to tie up enemy firepower units like Devastators or Lootas, being able to suppress them for a turn while you destroy other units is very useful.

Back in the day, when I was running a Dark Eldar armour based around Terrorfexes and Horrorfexes, being able to pin a unit I couldn't kill in a single turn was very useful because my units weren't able to survive counter-fire!

Ughh 60 points to have a good chance of getting a single markerlight counter on the target? And if it's on a carbine unit, because their range is so limited, chances are that unit will be moving at some point- meaning no markerlights that turn. I'd much prefer 5 pathfinders sitting back an deciding which unit to support.