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Ok due to some rather ‘undiplomatic’ responses Fraz was forced to close my last thread. However, with his kind permission, I intend to try again. Quick request, can posters please refrain from abuse towards Scientology or Scientologists themselves. A logical dissection of the principles however I think would be ok.

Ok so here’s the main body of the OP.

Today I had an interesting experience when I found out one of my new work colleagues is a practicing scientologist. Unfortunately I found this out the hard way when I made a joke about it (due to a story I the paper about Tom Cruise) in the canteen and he took offence. Luckily it’s all cleared up now between the 2 of us but I’m slightly taken aback about how to deal with. I’ve never met one before in all honestly I didn’t think there where any members outside of Hollywood. I always took it to be an eccentric film industry version of freemasonry.

I think the best approach is simply never to broach the subject again whilst he is around. Especially as we have to maintain a professional relationship but I was wondering if any had any experience with dealing with scientologists on a day to day basis? Any topics worth avoiding during conversation?

Aliens and outer space. Don't say anything that remotely resembles "Al Ron Hubbard", like the Hubble Telescope, Hubba Bubba Gum, Hubby, Humble, Rumble, AL Ron Hubbard is a quack, and anything related.

This has to go back here, though:

http://www.xenu.net/

Don't take it as gospel truth, but seriously: if you want to learn about Scientology, go to the people who have left the cult and read about their experiences. Most of the really good stuff about Scientology is kept very secret and the rest of us don't hear about it until someone gets out and brings the materials with them. Scientology has often attempted legal action to prevent this information from being disseminated.

In the end, Scientology doesn't do anything which other religions don't. All that changes is the window-dressing...and little plastic boxes with some LED's in them called "e-meters" which are actually children's toys disguised as some sort of stress tester which generates meaningful results.

I would treat him the same as another other co-worker, with as much respect as they deserve. Scientology has been described as a cult. Remember that zealots are generally humorless. I would avoid making 'off the cuff' comments that were attempts at humor.

Honesty being the best policy, if the person concerned isn't a total arsehole, engage in ordinary polite conversation and then just ask if it's ok to ask about the religion. If so, just couch you're questions carefully, don't go on the attack and listen. I personally don't know any (that I know of) but have read a large amount of negative things about the way they operate and what they believe in, but I think I would also enjoy asking a few questions or just the question 'How does your faith work?' and genuinely make an effort to understand it.

It's interesting, keep us posted.

Politics and religion are two subjects that really should never come up at work especially since many people seem to get off at putting others down all the while being stubborn and intolerant; aka bigotry.

All religions are pretty quirky and scientology is far from the exception; check out this brief summary about Christianity to see what I mean:

"The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree..."

There is an old adage in busienss that is helpful here, and its often considered a real faux paux (sp I ain't French) to violate.

Never discuss religion or politics at work. Edit argh Cane beat me to it.
I'll help by adding sexual harassment suits are not a myth. Remember that as well boys AND girls.

Tell him that it's okay, and that you're a practicing Fictionologist.

I did not read any of the other thread (and since it is locked, I don't plan to) but it seems you may be forming a slight stigma against him just because he is into Scientology. That could be worse in the long run than your initial, badly timed Tom Cruise joke.

Someone else already said it. Mostly it is no different than any other mainstream religion. It is just people getting together because they are looking for answers in an often confusing world. If Scientology works for them then more power to them, individually that is.

It always fascinates me how many people make judgments (myself sometimes included) on others simply because of what they've heard (the media counts in this) instead of studying it or learning about it for themselves. Not directed at the OP specifically but at all of us as people. No, I am not a Scientologist.

There are Catholics: Some live their lives to the highest ideal of their beliefs and some are arseholes (Remember any priests from your childhood ) but they are all still Catholics.

This same sentence can be applied to any religion, group, club or cultural identity (even 40K gamers, remember 'that F-ing guy'). Its just people in general.

Honestly, if this was me (and it was once concerning another type of religion and I did this) I would just apologize, admit my ignorance and ask questions. As previously mentioned, if he is a zealot, you'll find out pretty quickly and know to keep some distance, if he pretty much a decent guy he'll probably answer just about anything you ask and probably warm to you a bit as you made an attempt to do away with ignorance. At the very least your relationship should improve above what it is now.

Just my thoughts and experience on it.

Cane wrote:All religions are pretty quirky and scientology is far from the exception; check out this brief summary about Christianity to see what I mean:

I always liked George Carlin's summary, "So, you worship a dead guy nailed to two pieces of wood?"

GoFenris wrote:I did not read any of the other thread (and since it is locked, I don't plan to) but it seems you may be forming a slight stigma against him just because he is into Scientology.

If he found out the guy was a neonazi would it then be ok to form a value judgment about him? Where do we draw the line on when it is ok to say this is wrong or this is right?

GoFenris wrote:Mostly it is no different than any other mainstream religion.

What an incredibly misguided and naive assessment. It shows a lack of critical understanding of the religious experience and research into the field. Religion is more complicated than "people believe in something".


For other fun reading: Operation Snow White.

Legally however, there 'taint no difference tween the two. Scientology would qualify as a religion in terms of getting you sued. Thats enough for me in this context and the context of the OP.

I believe the founder of Scientology is quoted as saying something along the lines of "The best way to make money is by starting your own religion"


Feel free to draw your own conclusions.

Tell him you're one of the Galactoids. And you like to party.

Frazzled wrote:Legally however, there 'taint no difference tween the two. Scientology would qualify as a religion in terms of getting you sued. Thats enough for me in this context and the context of the OP.

Perhaps in some countries but not others, such as the UK, Canada, and Germany.

GoFenris wrote:Mostly it is no different than any other mainstream religion.

My problem with this is that oversimplifies religion and groups them all together even though there are radical differences between religions. It oversimplifies the issue greatly which doesn't really help anyone.

Ahtman wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Legally however, there 'taint no difference tween the two. Scientology would qualify as a religion in terms of getting you sued. Thats enough for me in this context and the context of the OP.

Perhaps in some countries but not others, such as the UK, Canada, and Germany.

But it does in the US. It may in the UK as well. I am not up on their case law, just their lack of proper chocolate cakage.

GoFenris wrote:Mostly it is no different than any other mainstream religion.

My problem with this is that oversimplifies religion and groups them all together even though there are radical differences between religions. It oversimplifies the issue greatly which doesn't really help anyone.

Frazzled wrote:

Ahtman wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Legally however, there 'taint no difference tween the two. Scientology would qualify as a religion in terms of getting you sued. Thats enough for me in this context and the context of the OP.

Perhaps in some countries but not others, such as the UK, Canada, and Germany.

But it does in the US. It may in the UK as well. I am not up on their case law, just their lack of proper chocolate cakage.

It isn't in the UK, I just said that. It is granted non-profit organization status, not Religious status.

Ahtman wrote:

GoFenris wrote:I did not read any of the other thread (and since it is locked, I don't plan to) but it seems you may be forming a slight stigma against him just because he is into Scientology.

If he found out the guy was a neonazi would it then be ok to form a value judgment about him? Where do we draw the line on when it is ok to say this is wrong or this is right?

My point is most people have an understanding of what a NeoNazi is (which, btw is constitutionally protected in the U.S.) and people simply assume they know what a Scientologist is.

As for the other comments, Frazzled handled that nicely. Wake up guys, this isn't a debate regarding religion or Scientologists, it is about a guy that accidentally offended a Scientologist at work. Perhaps I should have said, "In this case..."

Well, that's sort of the reason I posted up that link. It's only a jumping-off point for research, but what I would want anyone to get out of it, including the OP, is that Scientology is something taken as seriously by its proponents as any Orthodox religion. Remove words like "brainwashing" and replace it with "indoctrination" of the sort you get with orthodox faiths through dogma and ceremony. It's all the same thing.

So..."dealing with a Scientologist" could be "dealing with a Catholic" or "dealing with an Orthodox Jew" or whatever religion you want to throw in there. How would you handle offending someone of THOSE faiths in the workplace?

Just because Scientology is the religion in question doesn't make the answer any different is my point I guess.

I would treat them the same as any other person from a group that I perceived as a boatload of nutjobs.

Ahltman you may be right. I am not up on UK law.

It hasn't really been put under the scrutiny of the UK courts yet AFAIK.

I know earlier this year the CPS ( crown prosecution service) was advising the courts to start to treat it, in legal terma anyway, as much the same ways as any of the other "big three" religions, not least after the disgarceful arrest of a teenager at a ANONYMOUS inspired demo outside one of their braindeathcam.....errrr.. centres in the UK.

That said it has, legally, been refered to and treated as a "cult" before so.....flip a coin see what judge you get I guess ?

I thought South Park had already killed it, to be honest.

So is that protected in employment law Redy or whats the deal?

I've no idea what the law on this is. Nor really do I care. I was just wondering how to deal with this on a day to day basis.

I've worked with Catholics, Jews, Muslims and a Sikh and their respective religions have never been an issue before nor do I suspect it will be an issue now.

Scientology though just feels 'different'. I can respect and even admire the traditions of the mainstream religions even though they don't speak to me on any kind of personal or logical level. But this is a 'religion' whose origins are easily traceable to the last 60 years or so, have no form of tradition steeped in either history or legend and behaves like a schoolyard bully.

I can keep quiet. But I would be lying if I said my respect for this guy, who otherwise is very knowledgeable and intelligent, hadn't taken a big hit.

That's exactly why you should learn about it. Whether from him or somewhere/one else (preferably informed not media programmed).

Err..What is a scientologist?

Cause im very confused.

You don't need respect Lucius, just don't broach the topic. Its not neccessary. On the positive you should research Jehovah's Witness literature a little bit, and better yet get some. If he says anything ask him if he would like to have a little discussion about his personal relationship with J and proffer him some of your materials. Funfilled hilarity should ensue.

Frazzled wrote:So is that protected in employment law Redy or whats the deal?

Hmm...... currently no, not as such.

BUT....

.. if you were to find a lawyer.... say one of those nasty "no win no fee" witches...


then you would at least be able to mount a challenge.

So far the cult-- we are allowed to call it that note-- has lost pretty much every case that it has started in the UK, often resulting in them being forced to pay damages -- crappy site but see here for some details.

We have prior existing legal rulings that would be grounds for a judgment against them being viewed as a religion.


Now however.... and I'm sure not being at all influenced by the various gifts they ALLEDGEDLY --please note use of word -- have given to various police forces in the Uk would have no affect whatsoever.

So in summary...... : that nice Mr. CRuise turns up in court and vouches for the person then they might win, otherise no fething chance.

Frazzled wrote:You don't need respect Lucius, just don't broach the topic. Its not neccessary. On the positive you should research Jehovah's Witness literature a little bit, and better yet get some. If he says anything ask him if he would like to have a little discussion about his personal relationship with J and proffer him some of your materials. Funfilled hilarity should ensue.

Yeah, and there is that approach!