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I have been looking into this for a bit, and I would like to share a bit of information that I have found. Wikipedia provides a fantastic summary, with all pretty much all points accounted for.

Here is Wiki, I linked to the relevant piece.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology#Dispute_of_religion_status

The piece beneath this is also interesting, I quoted so the discussion can start up.

Wiki wrote:While acknowledging that a number of his colleagues accept Scientology as a religion, sociologist and professor Stephen A. Kent wrote: "Rather than struggling over whether or not to label Scientology as a religion, I find it far more helpful to view it as a multifaceted transnational corporation, only one element of which is religious" [emphasis in the original].[178][179] Kent also holds that the US government sees Scientology not as a religion, but as a charitable organization due to their religious claims.

Here is a very important piece of this, also regarding Wikipedia.

http://www.osnews.com/story/21587

There is absolutely no need for this to be a flame war, and a discussion would help me better understand Scientology's current status. It is important to note that Scientology is not recognized as a religion the world throughout, and even where it is accepted there are still a lot of mixed feelings.

Yes i believe it is.

Religion doesnt always need a "God" aslong as its teaching something.

It depends on which definition of "metaphysical" you subscribe to; because a religion is a set of metaphysical beliefs. If the metaphysical simply deals with that which is beyond evidence, then Scientology is a religion. If the metaphysical deals with that which is beyond the physical, then it isn't a religion.

Please explain a bit more Dogma.

Religion:
http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=religion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion

Metaphysics:
http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=metaphysical

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysics

ITT: the teenager try's to tell the Philosophy graduate what metaphysics means. Let's sit back and enjoy.

*goes and makes popcorn*

Let's see if I can do this without using original work.

wikipedia wrote:
A religion is an organized approach to human spirituality...

wikipedia wrote:
Spiritual matters regard humankind's ultimate nature and purpose, not as material biological organisms, but as spirits or energy with an eternal relationship beyond the bodily senses, time and the material world.

wikipedia wrote:
Metaphysics investigates principles of reality transcending those of any particular science.

Hopefully that's communicative.

It's a scam. This entire thread is more validation of its worth than it deserves. Hey! I guess it is a religion after all!!!!

Does the fact that members of Scientology are basically obliged to pay ridiculous amounts of money for the teachings it offers mean anything?

That does not seem very religious if you ask me, although the Scientology "Church" could be classifying them as contributions. I haven't been to a single "house of god" where they basically demanded money from you before you could learn their teachings.

Wrexasaur wrote:Does the fact that members of Scientology are basically obliged to pay ridiculous amounts of money for the teachings it offers mean anything?

Not really.

Wrexasaur wrote:
That does not seem very religious if you ask me, although the Scientology "Church" could be classifying them as contributions. I haven't been to a single "house of god" where they basically demanded money from you before you could learn their teachings.

You're probably not Catholic.

You are talking about donations though, like drop a fiver in on Sunday... the difference is quite obvious.

I can link you to a video of a guy who was a scientologist for many years, and ended up going bankrupt because of their demands. Name a single Catholic gone bankrupt due to donating a fiver to the Church every Sunday.

My grandma has been going to Church Saturday, Sunday, and sometimes another two days of the week for nearly her whole life as far as I know. She contributes through volunteer work mainly, not by contributing exorbitant amounts of money for the next interpretation of the bible.

Wrexasaur wrote:You are talking about donations though, like drop a fiver in on Sunday... the difference is quite obvious.

That's not how tithes work.

Wrexasaur wrote:
I can link you to a video of a guy who was a scientologist for many years, and ended up going bankrupt because of their demands. Name a single Catholic gone bankrupt due to donating a fiver to the Church every Sunday.

Are we bound by historical considerations?

Wrexasaur wrote:
My grandma has been going to Church Saturday, Sunday, and sometimes another two days of the week for nearly her whole life as far as I know. She contributes through volunteer work mainly, not by contributing exorbitant amounts of money for the next interpretation of the bible.

That's where theology majors come in.

Out of curiosity are you religious Dogma?

Your statement have been engineered to dissect my posts in a way that generally disregards them. Good job .

Explain this please Dogma.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithes#Governmental_collection_of_religious_offerings_and_taxes

Explain to me how the small taxes explained above can be rationally compared to the "fees" that Scientology imposes.

dogma wrote:

Wrexasaur wrote:You are talking about donations though, like drop a fiver in on Sunday... the difference is quite obvious.

That's not how tithes work.

That is how donations work. You donate when you can or when you want. If you truly believe in something, you donate.

As far as religions go, most of them at least, you donate regularly to the faith. You are not told "Well, you cannot come back to church and learn our holy scripture until you throw down the $100 we need so you can learn." You have to pay to learn Scientology. Its a scam.

I do not believe that Scientology is a Religion. While I am an Atheist, I believe that the current large organized religions follow a peaceful teaching. (This does not include the radical sects that haunt all religions)

Scientology is not really peaceful at all. They believe that if you are not a Scientologist, you are not worth anything and they can do whatever they want to you when you blaspheme their language. They are also known to lock those that are attempting to leave their religion into rooms until they rejoin the religion or die. They also sap the money out of their members until they are basically broke and screwed.

You can all argue that most all Religions were at one point worse in their evolution as a religion. The Spanish Inquisition stands out as one of those points. But you don't really see that anymore as the Catholic Church and Muslims are grown and changed and adapted to one another. (Again, not counting the crazy radical sects that haunt all religions)

All Religions seek to better themselves, their community, and their followers. Scientology betters itself, but hurts the community around it and its followers.

Or that is my opinion. :/ (Half asleep, god I hope this makes sense)

Wrexasaur wrote:Out of curiosity are you religious Dogma?

No, I just have a fetish for arguing.

Wrexasaur wrote:
Your statement have been engineered to dissect my posts in a way that generally disregards them. Good job .

You haven't said anything yet, so it hasn't been hard.

Wrexasaur wrote:
Explain this please Dogma.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithes#Governmental_collection_of_religious_offerings_and_taxes

Explain to me how the small taxes explained above can be rationally compared to the "fees" that Scientology imposes.

When did 10% of anything become small? Especially when that "anything" tends to be total income?

Either way, the rational comparison is obvious. Both religions require significant sums of money. Both religions depend on voluntary contribution. Both religions dissemble in order to obtain those "voluntary" contributions.

I'm not endorsing scientology. I'm simply stating that it isn't overly different from other religions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dreadwinter wrote:
That is how donations work. You donate when you can or when you want. If you truly believe in something, you donate.

We were discussing the Catholic Church, so donations are irrelevant.

Dreadwinter wrote:
As far as religions go, most of them at least, you donate regularly to the faith. You are not told "Well, you cannot come back to church and learn our holy scripture until you throw down the $100 we need so you can learn." You have to pay to learn Scientology. Its a scam.

Again, Catholicism.

Dreadwinter wrote:
Scientology is not really peaceful at all. They believe that if you are not a Scientologist, you are not worth anything and they can do whatever they want to you when you blaspheme their language. They are also known to lock those that are attempting to leave their religion into rooms until they rejoin the religion or die. They also sap the money out of their members until they are basically broke and screwed.

Cool. There was an inquisition in Spain. Apparently a good time was had by all.

Dreadwinter wrote:
You can all argue that most all Religions were at one point worse in their evolution as a religion. The Spanish Inquisition stands out as one of those points.

Dreadwinter wrote:
But you don't really see that anymore as the Catholic Church and Muslims are grown and changed and adapted to one another. (Again, not counting the crazy radical sects that haunt all religions)

All Religions seek to better themselves, their community, and their followers. Scientology betters itself, but hurts the community around it and its followers.

They do? Does it?

Diggity-dogma wrote:You haven't said anything yet, so it hasn't been hard.

Hence the . Like a balloon I tells ya.

Dogma wrote:Cool. There was an inquisition in Spain. Apparently a good time was had by all.

Yes... around multiple centuries ago I might add... just a thought really. Not that we haven't advanced and etc... etc... etc... you can fill in the blank too.

Your comment about paying is interesting wrex, as throughout history other religions churches have had a similar method of getting money.

"GIVE US MONEY OR YOUR GOING TO HELL!" was essentially what the majority of christian churches did in the UK from their first induction until around the 1800's (in some cases taxing the people so much that the poorest villains became yet poorer) yet christianity is DEFFINATELY a religion, is it not?

dogma wrote:

Wrexasaur wrote:Out of curiosity are you religious Dogma?

No, I just have a fetish for arguing.

Wrexasaur wrote:
Your statement have been engineered to dissect my posts in a way that generally disregards them. Good job .

You haven't said anything yet, so it hasn't been hard.

Wrexasaur wrote:
Explain this please Dogma.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithes#Governmental_collection_of_religious_offerings_and_taxes

Explain to me how the small taxes explained above can be rationally compared to the "fees" that Scientology imposes.

When did 10% of anything become small? Especially when that "anything" tends to be total income?

Either way, the rational comparison is obvious. Both religions require significant sums of money. Both religions depend on voluntary contribution. Both religions dissemble in order to obtain those "voluntary" contributions.

I'm not endorsing scientology. I'm simply stating that it isn't overly different from other religions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dreadwinter wrote:
That is how donations work. You donate when you can or when you want. If you truly believe in something, you donate.

We were discussing the Catholic Church, so donations are irrelevant.

Dreadwinter wrote:
As far as religions go, most of them at least, you donate regularly to the faith. You are not told "Well, you cannot come back to church and learn our holy scripture until you throw down the $100 we need so you can learn." You have to pay to learn Scientology. Its a scam.

Again, Catholicism.

Dreadwinter wrote:
Scientology is not really peaceful at all. They believe that if you are not a Scientologist, you are not worth anything and they can do whatever they want to you when you blaspheme their language. They are also known to lock those that are attempting to leave their religion into rooms until they rejoin the religion or die. They also sap the money out of their members until they are basically broke and screwed.

Cool. There was an inquisition in Spain. Apparently a good time was had by all.

Dreadwinter wrote:
You can all argue that most all Religions were at one point worse in their evolution as a religion. The Spanish Inquisition stands out as one of those points.

Dreadwinter wrote:
But you don't really see that anymore as the Catholic Church and Muslims are grown and changed and adapted to one another. (Again, not counting the crazy radical sects that haunt all religions)

All Religions seek to better themselves, their community, and their followers. Scientology betters itself, but hurts the community around it and its followers.

They do? Does it?

rofl, you are terrible at trolling

corpsesarefun wrote:"GIVE US MONEY OR YOUR GOING TO HELL!" was essentially what the majority of christian churches did in the UK from their first induction until around the 1800's

Until the 1800's... you should have skipped that part for the sake of your argument. I would like you to point out people that have gone bankrupt due to their faiths... the list is almost entirely due to Scientology.

We seem to be comparing a handful of sand to an entire beach here, and for me at least the point is pretty flimsy.

dogma wrote:Cool. There was an inquisition in Spain. Apparently a good time was had by all.

Indeed, but no one was really prepared for it. One might say that they were not expecting it.

corpsesarefun wrote:Your comment about paying is interesting wrex, as throughout history other religions churches have had a similar method of getting money.

"GIVE US MONEY OR YOUR GOING TO HELL!" was essentially what the majority of christian churches did in the UK from their first induction until around the 1800's (in some cases taxing the people so much that the poorest villains became yet poorer) yet christianity is DEFFINATELY a religion, is it not?

You are arguing the entire History of a religion that spans most of known history against a new Religion that came out I think less than 10 years ago.

We are coming on 2010 now. We have new Morals and new ways of doing things. We have better organization as a species. Religions like Christianity has realized their wrong doings and they have stopped what they have done. But a "religion" like Scientology to come out and demand its members to pay money to learn its teachings in this day and age is ridiculous.

The term Religion has evolved over time. As has the Religions.

Modquisition on:

I am going to close this as its directly attacking what could be viewed as a religion. Should you wish to re-open please contact Yakface directly with no hard feelings on my part.