North Korea releases imprisioned American journalists thanks to Bill Clinton

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**Cheese Elemental**

Source: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/08/05/2647000.htm?section=world

Former United States president Bill Clinton's trip to North Korea to win the release of two American journalists may change relations between the two foes.

Mr Clinton met North Korea's reclusive leader Kim Jong Il, who issued a pardon, and the women were released just hours later.

Just last month North Korea's Foreign Ministry had harsh words for Mr Clinton's wife Hillary Clinton, describing the US Secretary of State as a "funny lady" who sometimes "looks like a primary schoolgirl and sometimes a pensioner going shopping".

The White House insists his trip was not an "official" visit but, regardless, it was a secret mission by a high-level envoy.

US President Barack Obama has previously declared that North Korea poses a "grave threat to the peace and security of Asia and the world" but has not ruled out eventual dialogue.

So does Mr Clinton's successful mission signal a turn in US-North Korea relations, particularly in the wake of tougher international sanctions to punish Pyongyang for its nuclear and missile tests?

Jack Pritchard, a former special envoy to North Korea, believes the country agreed to release the journalists in a bid to try to reset its relationship with the Obama administration.

"For the first time we've seen that UN Security Council resolution, the sanctions from 1874, were looking as though they might actually have an effect on the regime," he said.

"So these things were accumulative - in effect, the North Koreans really saw no good future down the path that they were on."

Mr Pritchard hopes Mr Clinton will convey a message to the Obama administration that North Korea is on its way back to multilateral talks.

"What the Obama administration needs to do now is take them up on that, rather than say 'no, we're not going to talk to them bilaterally'," he said.

"[Mr Obama should] engage them, see where it leads, but with the intent of getting them back to the multilateral track just as soon as possible."

Mr Clinton's mercy mission is the highest-profile visit by an American to Pyongyang for nearly a decade.

William Cohen was defence secretary in the Clinton administration and says there would have been several diplomatic aspects to the former president's trip.

"I'm sure that President Clinton made an assessment of the health and wellbeing of Kim Jong Il, to say whether or not he is in full control of his faculties and that perhaps rumours about his health have been exaggerated," he said.

"Secondly, he may have been able to probe to see whether or not there is some flexibility or willingness on the part of Kim Jong Il to in fact return to the six-party talks.

"Body language has a lot to do with it, some signals, some nuanced conversations ... and they can bring that back to the administration and say, 'here's a way of moving forward without compromising our principles on this one'."

The director of the Asian studies centre at the Heritage Foundation, Walter Lohman, says North Korea may also have ulterior motives for the visit.

"The real danger though is that this will be a repeat of history along the lines of Jimmy Carter's visit in 1994, that's that Clinton will come out with some sort of promise or interest from the North Korean side on addressing their nuclear issue, and then that will immediately take the pressure off that's been building on them to abandon their program," he said.

"I think that we have to be very careful that the North Koreans don't leverage us into something else. I think they have much broader aims than just talking to Bill Clinton."

Now this is interesting. I assume you've already heard of the journalists being freed, but I really thought NoKo was going to keep them incarcerated. If they're serious about resetting relations, then this could very well be the turning point in their terrible relationship with the rest of the world.

**Emperors Faithful**

I'd never thought I'd say this but... Go Bill Clinton!

**reds8n**

Bill Clinton... captive women in a foreign land....

.. this gak just writes itself sometimes.

But good for him and congrats to their families.

**Frazzled**

Has nothing to do with him. They were released for favors, one of which was to have their head killer stand next to the former President. Great face and adds legitimacy.

**reds8n**

Yeah, cause Kin Jong just craves the soothing balm of the adoration of .. of...

"adds legitimacy"..

I'm afraid you might have knee jerked a bit too much here perhaps. No country in the world is going to look and suddenly say "Wow! he stood next to Clinton, he must be alright then!" and his own people either won't be told at all or it will be spun so that it bears no relevance to what happened anyway.

..*Fox news joke*

**Frazzled**

reds8n wrote:Yeah, cause Kin Jong just craves the soothing balm of the adoration of .. of...

"adds legitimacy".. I'm afraid you might have knee jerked a bit too much here perhaps. No country in the world is going to look and suddenly say "Wow! he stood next to Clinton, he must be alright then!" and his own people either won't be told at all or it will be spun so that it bears no relevance to what happened anyway.

..*Fox news joke*

Wanna bet? There is internal succession war going on currently. Photos of him raise his standing and presumptions concerning health.
Thats just the photo op. Other goodies are coming. They always do.

**MeanGreenStompa**

Frazzled wrote:Has nothing to do with him. They were released for favors, one of which was to have their head killer stand next to the former President. Great face and adds legitimacy.

So has nothing to do with him but standing next to him was a favour? So actually an ex president, recognised as popular abroad, travels to NK and they get released?

Sorry Fraz, but I think BC travelling over there added a huge amount of weight to getting those ladies out. Always liked the old rogue myself.

**chaplaingrabthar**

Well, Mr. Clinton was always good at getting the ladies...

In this case he got two of them freed.

**M_Stress**

Frazzled wrote:Has nothing to do with him.

Hum... The article indicate otherwise.

**Frazzled**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Frazzled wrote:Has nothing to do with him. They were released for favors, one of which was to have their head killer stand next to the former President. Great face and adds legitimacy.

So has nothing to do with him but standing next to him was a favour? So actually an ex president, recognised as popular abroad, travels to NK and they get released?

Sorry Fraz, but I think BC travelling over there added a huge amount of weight to getting those ladies out. Always liked the old rogue myself.

That was part of the price to be paid. The deal was struck before he went over there. Thats how those things work.

**MeanGreenStompa**

Ah, so what you're actually saying is it was nothing to do with his actual negotiation skills whilst there. I suspect that might be truth, in that they had some additional demands and USA and NK had had that conversation before he was sent. Those things are mostly worked out before the flight over, mostly... But if they had tried wrangling more once he arrived (seems likely) then he and his advisors would have had to negotiate. That's where I'd rather have had Clinton there fighting my case than...hmmm, a more recent ex president...

**Ahtman**

Bill Clinton has no authority whatsoever to negotiate. Anything done was through the State Department and the White House of which he is a member of neither. He just put a face put on this. The details would have already been worked out (one being they wanted someone important to come and ask for our people back) before they arrived.

**Frazzled**

Agreed on all counts MGS/Ahtman.

**malfred**

Bill Clinton: Agent Double-O Sexy

"One cigar. Stirred, not shaken."

**MeanGreenStompa**

malfred wrote:Bill Clinton: Agent Double-O Sexy

"One cigar. Stirred, not shaken."

Great idea for a tv series, each international crime fighting episode ends with him soulfully playing 'Baker Street' on sax in silhouette on a national landmark from the country he's rescued as a segsah laydee knees down before him...

Bill C rocks.

**ShumaGorath**

Frazzled wrote:
reds8n wrote:Yeah, cause Kin Jong just craves the soothing balm of the adoration of .. of...

"adds legitimacy".. I'm afraid you might have knee jerked a bit too much here perhaps. No country in the world is going to look and suddenly say "Wow! he stood next to Clinton, he must be alright then!" and his own people either won't be told at all or it will be spun so that it bears no relevance to what happened anyway.

..*Fox news joke*

Wanna bet? There is internal succession war going on currently. Photos of him raise his standing and presumptions concerning health.
Thats just the photo op. Other goodies are coming. They always do.

I'm pretty sure they have photoshop in north korea. They could have had those images anyway. It's not like the starving civilian population would know the difference. While it likely had more to do with avoiding the obvious and reactionary international repercussions that would result from the jailing of two high profile foreign nationals (women no less) saying that everything was decided by some intern on the plane over is just ridiculous. The current issue of succession requires a delicate balance between proving independence from foreign powers and avoiding unacceptable aid loss, and bill clinton is a better negotiator then anyone thats been sent from the US into north korea since he left the presidency. John Boltan should be shot.

**brotherskeeper74**

Bill Clinton going over seas to pick up chicks. Two thoughts running through my mind:

- Wonder what went on during the flight back?

- I'm very sure Hillary is wondering what went on during the flight back!

**Orkeosaurus**

**Frazzled**

Orkeosaurus wrote:

Orkeosaurus for maximum thread pwonage!