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I have a question about the following two models and how they deal with gaining cover...

If I hide a Deff Dread behind Ork boyz, is it considered obscured? Can the Deff Dread fire normally over the Boyz with out giving the target a 4+ save?

If I hide a Killa Kan behind Ork boyz, is it considered obscured? Can the Killa Kan fire normally over the Boyz with out giving the target a 4+ save?

If I hide a Trukk behind Ork boyz, is it considered obscured? Can the Trukk fire normally over the Boyz with out giving the target a 4+ save?

What is the largest thing that I can hide behind boyz and claim a cover save?

QuietOrkmi wrote:
What is the largest thing that I can hide behind boyz and claim a cover save?

Infantry, because 50% of the vehicle needs to be in cover to get an obscured 4+ save and boys wont hide 50% of a vehicle.

Infantry can block LOS, but generally speaking it is difficult to do since most vehicles are substantially larger than infantry.

I've been able to obscure a Chimera with my veterans and SM should be able to obscure a Rhino. That is said with the assumption in mind that the enemy unit is fairly close and fairly short them selves.

Grimgob wrote:

QuietOrkmi wrote:
What is the largest thing that I can hide behind boyz and claim a cover save?

Infantry, because 50% of the vehicle needs to be in cover to get an obscured 4+ save and boys wont hide 50% of a vehicle.

Wrong.

Boys cover at least 50% of Kans, Trucks, Looted wagons (at least based on Rhino sized chasis). I am unsure of DeffDreads, since I don't own the model.

Alos, Nobs are tall enough to grant obscurement to BWs. I just measured

DeffDreads are too tall for normal boyz to give cover, but the new nobz are almost tall enough to obscure. I found the easiest way to ensure I get a obscured is use a KFF.

I personally think the rules are silly. MCs are the same as vehicles, and I find it extremely stupid that you can shoot at something like my daemon prince hiding behind a rhino when only the top of the jetpacks are sticking out. If the guy were to simply crouch a bit, you wouldnt even know he's there.

Night Lords wrote:I personally think the rules are silly. MCs are the same as vehicles, and I find it extremely stupid that you can shoot at something like my daemon prince hiding behind a rhino when only the top of the jetpacks are sticking out. If the guy were to simply crouch a bit, you wouldnt even know he's there.

I dont think you CAN shoot him if only the top of the jetpacks are showing. The rules say you need to see a body part to have LoS, yes?

You can see more than the backpack if a Daemon Prince is behind a rhino. The top of his head sticks over.

Regarding Deff Dreads/Kans screened by Boyz, it depends how the Boyz are modeled. If their choppas are in the air and the models are turned sideways, they do indeed obscure half of a Kan. Dreads get kinda shady but you could probably pull off at least a 5+.

sourclams wrote:You can see more than the backpack if a Daemon Prince is behind a rhino. The top of his head sticks over.

Regarding Deff Dreads/Kans screened by Boyz, it depends how the Boyz are modeled. If their choppas are in the air and the models are turned sideways, they do indeed obscure half of a Kan. Dreads get kinda shady but you could probably pull off at least a 5+.

Boys are only modeled that way to give the impression that they are moving (take slugga boys for example) , they are intended to be a fluid, mass of green about to mash faces.

Whats the difference in this instance, how the models are posed, when they are the same as any other boy squad and in reality would be jumping up and down, playing catch with choppas with their mates, and other orky type stuff...

Are all ork players who want to gain cover saves expected to model their boys into squads running around with their hands in the air screaming hallelujah?

I mean, im fine with this if this is what is intended by the rules, but it just seems too odd.

just another angle for this thread, as it looks like it isnt done yet

I mean, im fine with this if this is what is intended by the rules, but it just seems too odd.

Actually, GW has explicitly stated in the past that players can model to gain advantages (I believe the kneeling Wraithlord was used as an example).

sourclams wrote:You can see more than the backpack if a Daemon Prince is behind a rhino. The top of his head sticks over.

Not exactly. First off, you play to line of sight of the model. (Next to the lone spike is the hunch, aka the top of the jump pack [I took the parts that stick up off to prepare for wings] , and to the right is the very tip of his shoulder pad)



When I moved the rhino so the spikes were in the way, you could barely tell that the prince was there. Even when parallel with the rhino you still can only see his nec

I think its cheesy that a model like this gets a 4+ cover save, and at the same time an infantryman with a rock protecting his right foot gets one too.

It may be cheesy, but the rules apply equally to all players and a s such the playingfield is level.

Trying to apply logic and realism to 40K is doomed to fail.

There is a player at our local shop that uses an ooold daemon prince that is no taller than a standard CSM.
:(

At my FLGS there's a player with a Bloodthirster that's crouching down (he hides him behind his Bloodcrushers). Which isn't completely breaking the spirit of the rules because the old school Bloodthirster is about the same size standing up as the new one is crouching down.

But it breaks the fluffiness of the model because BLOODTHIRSTERS DON'T COWER DOWN BEHIND THEIR FRIENDS!

Night Lords wrote:
When I moved the rhino so the spikes were in the way, you could barely tell that the prince was there. Even when parallel with the rhino you still can only see his nec

I think its cheesy that a model like this gets a 4+ cover save, and at the same time an infantryman with a rock protecting his right foot gets one too.

The 4+ cover save implies that your DP DID duck behind the rhino to dodge incoming fire...

Steelmage99 wrote:It may be cheesy, but the rules apply equally to all players and a s such the playingfield is level.

Trying to apply logic and realism to 40K is doomed to fail.

Except if I ruin my model and chop his legs down a bit, you cant even see him, meaning I now have 4 mobile pieces of terrain for him - huge difference in the game.

Night Lords wrote:Except if I ruin my model and chop his legs down a bit, you cant even see him, meaning I now have 4 mobile pieces of terrain for him - huge difference in the game.

Yep, and huge difference in your soft scores at tournaments. How sporting is it to attempt to gain an advantage by modifying your models to exploit the LOS rules? It's one thing to model something because it's cool looking but quite another to do it purely for in game advantage.

Rest assured crawling Wraithlords, Kneeling Daemon Princes and the like will not win friends nor influence people...

The Green Git wrote:Rest assured crawling Wraithlords, Kneeling Daemon Princes and the like will not win friends nor influence people...

QFT.

The Green Git wrote:

Night Lords wrote:Except if I ruin my model and chop his legs down a bit, you cant even see him, meaning I now have 4 mobile pieces of terrain for him - huge difference in the game.

Yep, and huge difference in your soft scores at tournaments. How sporting is it to attempt to gain an advantage by modifying your models to exploit the LOS rules? It's one thing to model something because it's cool looking but quite another to do it purely for in game advantage.

Rest assured crawling Wraithlords, Kneeling Daemon Princes and the like will not win friends nor influence people...

Except my point is the prince is barely too tall. It wouldnt even be a drastic remodelling. His backpack is just barely sticking up. Its nowhere near the level of kneeling wraithlords.

Night Lords wrote:

The Green Git wrote:

Night Lords wrote:Except if I ruin my model and chop his legs down a bit, you cant even see him, meaning I now have 4 mobile pieces of terrain for him - huge difference in the game.

Yep, and huge difference in your soft scores at tournaments. How sporting is it to attempt to gain an advantage by modifying your models to exploit the LOS rules? It's one thing to model something because it's cool looking but quite another to do it purely for in game advantage.

Rest assured crawling Wraithlords, Kneeling Daemon Princes and the like will not win friends nor influence people...

Except my point is the prince is barely too tall. It wouldnt even be a drastic remodelling. His backpack is just barely sticking up. Its nowhere near the level of kneeling wraithlords.

He cant be shot if that is all that is visible. The rulebook states that in order to have line of sight you need to see a body part. (this excludes wings and tails, those dont grant LoS) Nothing he is carrying or WEARING grants line of sight to him.