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I'm looking to find out what are the most effective army lists and units in he game of warhammer 40k

Too generic a question. A lot of armies can be made effective.

Im just throwing some out:

IG - Mechanised
Eldar - Wraithzilla or WaveSerpent/FirePrism spam
CSM - Lash Prince with PM's/Oblits or Khorne LR spam
Space Marines - Various effective lists
Tyranid - Nidzilla/Psychic Choir
Tau - stuff with CrisisSuits/Broadsides/Hammerheads
Orkz - Horde with KFF 120+boys and 9 Killa cans or Battlewagonspam
Dark Eldar - Raider spam
Daemons - Thirster/mixed daemons/SoulGrinders/Winged DP's
Necron - Monolith or Destroyer spam

Units?

Eldar Jetbike Seer counsil
Plague Marines
Ork Nobs
Space Marine Terminators
Obliterators
Vendetta's
...
...

You can debate all these choises endlessly, some would dispute the effectivity of the armies/units Ive mentioned. It depends to a rather large extend on the general using the army as well.

Cilithan

Whats the deal with the seer counsel anyways?

IG - pretty much anything (foot, mech, alpha strike) Very good codex.
SM - Mech or gunline both work.
Eldar - Mech + seer council is really the only top list
Tau - Mech or gunline Both are very powerful
CSM - Lash + plague marines (only good list)
Dark eldar - Mech (not sure how its build exactly.)

I would say those are the Tier 1 lists. CSM probably being at the low end of them, but can definately get it done with a good player. Tau and IG are probably near the top.

If you are looking for actual lists, let me know and I can give you a list of some of them.

kitsunez wrote:Whats the deal with the seer counsel anyways?

Killing its members is the hardest thing you'll do in 40k games, hands down. I don't remember the exact numbers but I want to say they can reroll invulnerable saves or somesuch... I hope an eldar player can come along and give a better answer. The only thing I remember is that they are some big mean mother truckers to face.

As previously stated, it's as much the general as the army that takes victory, so one could still lose with a good list or win with a bad list.

Rico.

IG - Mech Vets mainly, a few other power builds
SM - Vulkan, various other lesser builds
Eldar - seer council
CSM - dual lash or Khorne mech
DE - mech darklance spam
Orks - battlewagon spam, nob bikers to a lesser degree

Those are the big dogs. The most over rated is lash and the most under rated is battlewagon spam.

Seer council is weak in the sense that you play towards a lot of minor victories. You don't really have the tools in mech eldar + seer council to really blow a decent player out of the water. So its good for single game matches against friends, but it can be rough to bring to a tournament.

Btw orks aren't tier 1
(inc 20 pages)

Timmah wrote:IG - pretty much anything (foot, mech, alpha strike) Very good codex.
SM - Mech or gunline both work.
Eldar - Mech + seer council is really the only top list
Tau - Mech or gunline Both are very powerful
CSM - Lash + plague marines (only good list)
Dark eldar - Mech (not sure how its build exactly.)

I would say those are the Tier 1 lists. CSM probably being at the low end of them, but can definately get it done with a good player. Tau and IG are probably near the top.

If you are looking for actual lists, let me know and I can give you a list of some of them.

I would be interested to see tier 1 SM and Eldar lists.

Btw, Orks is still tier 1. At the German GT, there were 2 Orks player among the first 3 places.

SM has 2-3 lists that work really good for it

Melta/flamer spam
which includes

3x speeders (HF/MM)
3x dreads (HF, CCW, MM)
3x Predators (AC/HB)
2x 10m Tact squad (Flamer, MM) Rhino

HQ can be vulkan or MotF, Can adjust point value by adding/dropping troops, speeders.

2nd list
Core is:
2x LRC (w/MM)
10x TH/SS terminators
2x 10m Tact squad (Flamer, MM) Rhino

Variant for rest of points
Predators (AC/HB)
Dreadnoughts (2x TL AC)
Speeders (HF/MM)

HQ can either be
MotF, Librarian with Null zone

Final list is just a gunline list
3x predators (TL LC, LC sponsons
3x Dreadnoughts (2x TL AC)
3x Speeders (HB, typhoon ML)
Master of the forge for HQ

Troops can either be standard
2x 10m Tact squad (Flamer, MM) Rhino
or
1x 10m Tact squad (Flamer, MM) Rhino
2x 5m tact squads, Razorback (weapons depending on points left)


Can't post the eldar lists off the top of my head but I can do those later. These are the basic tier 1 marines lists though. You can always vary them slightly towards your playstyle.


(orks are a meta game call imo, depending on the competition)
But this thread isn't about that so I'll shut up.

Timmah wrote:
Btw orks aren't tier 1
(inc 20 pages)

There you go again. Just because you think it doesn't make it so.

I just watched a 5 battlewagon list steamroll everything in its path. Please don't drag your opinionated hyperbole into this thread as well. The fact that they are placing very high at all levels speaks for itself.

Inigo Montoya wrote:

Timmah wrote:
Btw orks aren't tier 1
(inc 20 pages)

There you go again. Just because you think it doesn't make it so.

I just watched a 5 battlewagon list steamroll everything in its path. Please don't drag your opinionated hyperbole into this thread as well. The fact that they are placing very high at all levels speaks for itself.

I love how you quote and validate my joke.
(also see metagame lists)

Metagame lists are never considered tier 1 in other games.

Again, thats not what this thread is about and it was just a little joke at the amount of arguments about orks.

I still dunno why the seer counsel would be that great..... just rerolls on 3+ saves right?

Yeah, re-rolls on 3+ ordinary or 4+ invulnerable saves. Makes the unit more durable than Terminators... Highly mobile because of the Jetbikes and lethal because of the Heavy Flamers/Witchblades and Singing spears...

Cilithan wrote:Yeah, re-rolls on 3+ ordinary or 4+ invulnerable saves. Makes the unit more durable than Terminators... Highly mobile because of the Jetbikes and lethal because of the Heavy Flamers/Witchblades and Singing spears...

heavy flamers???


Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh destructor >.>

Seer council are a tough nut to crack. They are really hard to kill - 66% chance of armor save with reroll means 99% chance of an armor save; 50% chance of inv save with reroll means 75% chance of saving any wound.

That is just hard when coupled with jetbikes and the rest of the army.

Inigo Montoya wrote:Seer council are a tough nut to crack. They are really hard to kill - 66% chance of armor save with reroll means 99% chance of an armor save; 50% chance of inv save with reroll means 75% chance of saving any wound.

That is just hard when coupled with jetbikes and the rest of the army.

3+ save re-rolled is actually 89% chance to pass a save.

66,6% saves made on the first roll.
33,3% remain, you pass 66,6% out of that 33,3%, which makes for 22,2%.
Adding 66,6% and 22,2% gives 88,8%

Still, given the fact that a 2+ save gives an 83,3% chance at a succesfull save...