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When WOC came out I immediately went to work on lists and always came back to the all (or almost all with Chaos Ogres and GW, and Giants) cav list.


The x3 units of 5-6 slaanesh marked mtd marauders with flails.
Min sized chaos hound redirecters/quarter grabbers
2 units knights (marked)
Marked characters
etc, etc.

But having seen them run at tourneys and playing against them myself they seem to run out of puff very quickly and are struggling to make a dent in anything resembling a battle line of ranked units.
Of course the 'deathstar' units of knights and killy characters are punching through but by turn 4 even they have been whittled down and are struggling to do much.




Discuss....

I agree. All-cav WoC are really overrated. Yes, you have fast cavalry with flails... but they are still only base S/T 3. Once they've swung their flails, they're gone unless they're fighting something with no close combat ability like archers or handgunners.

Knights, on the other hand, are still very strong and durable, but lances on them are quite a gamble. If you fluff those S6 attacks, you're stuck with S4 on a one-rank unit for the rest of the combat. I prefer them to use their magic weapons instead.

Now, my Khorne army has nothing of the Marauding nature. It's all in full plate armour; Warriors, a Chaos Lord, Exalted Heroes, and Knights, all with the Mark of Khorne. Very tough and very choppy. I take my Warriors in blocks of 12-15 with full command. They're expensive and I'm often outnumbered, but it's worth it. My Heroes go in the Warrior units and my Lord rides with the Knights. I also have some Khornate Ogres with great weapons who do quite well as well as a Warshrine which doesn't have the MoK; I don't want my buffing unit dying!

Yup this is pretty much my experience with the all cav list, it has simply no staying power and if you don't break units on the charge then your pretty much done for.

Its the same with my current High Elf army i'm playtesting for the UK GT. However there is one fundamental difference that makes the High Elf army worth while and the all cav WOC slightly less viable, the simple answer there is dragons. 2 units of chaos knights and a chaos dragon will possibly have the staying power to smash through a battle line, not to mention all that tasty fear and terror.

Tbh, i'm not too sure how much a chaos dragon and lord will come too however armed with a Runesword and the Regeneration Crown it will make sure that the Lord shouldnt get too easily insta-gibbed by a stray cannon ball.

How do you guys feel? Do you think that a dragon is the answer to this problem of staying power?

Why Slaneesh Marauders? 3/4ths of the power of a cav list is your ability to harass and flee with marauders.

@ragnar4, you can still flee and harass with slaaneshi marauders. Its the best mark for them in fact, cause they wont charge off in a random direction and it solves their ld problem.

The all cav list is great, where it falls down is frenzy and staying power. See the basic solution to not having static CR and needing to break stuff on the charge is to always get the best charges and not fight any other way. This means fleeing and sacrificing units (sometimes ones other than dogs and marauders).

See on the one hand you cant flee if your heavy hitters are 400 point units (or rather, dont want to) or frenzied, but if they are 400pts and/or frenzied they can kill just about anything even if they have to take the charge. Its those rare and terrible units that you cant kill with a charge nor take a charge from that are the problem. Not to mention bullets.

So yeah its over rated. Really good though. Really, really...

Leith?

Slaneesh isn't Immune to Panic?

Slaanesh is immune to Panic, Fear, and Terror but they can still flee

Less flails, more Knights. Knights have staying power and awesomeness and can fight your protracted battles, but per usual WoC, you need lots of Magic to supplement your cav.

Well I played against a 3 mage/BSB, 2 knight units, 2 marauder cav units, giant MOS, 2 DOs and 14 chaos warrior and 25 marauders today with my NGs (2500pts)

Smashed him 2747VP to 1454VP.

The only unit I struggled against was the chaos warriors. Their rank bonus and great combat potential vs my crappy ranked units made them almost unstoppable, but foot of gork and 4 bolt throwers put some fear into them.

Acctually IIRC the Marauders, a mage and 2 knights were all that were left. I'll do a report up (go to battle reports forum)

Place two buildings on the table when deploying terrain.

Make a mad dash for them with your archers.

Laugh maniacally as you pull a draw (or at least, not a Massacre)

When I use marauder horsemen I usually have two units of 5 with musician and throwing axes and flails. The axes are a great diversionary tool. I usually only field one unit of knights sometimes MOK or no mark at all (Watch out for bolt throwers ). I'll use the Marauder Horsemen on the flank or rear charge of the knights. But Marauder horseman die in scores in any battle that you make them the lynch pin of your strategy. (This has happened to me more times than I wish to admit) They are only T3 with an armour save of like 5 or 6. If they get shot at, somebody's gear is getting split up back at the Chaos camp that evening by his surviving comrades.


I find that a lot of people go character crazy with their WoC armies. I generally only field three; General, scroll caddy and BSB. I'll give them marks if I have the points, especially the general, but if I can upgrade a unit or something else I'll do that. I generally only take exalted choices, as the Lord Choices are pretty expensive. I try to get as much stuff on the board for 2000 points as possible, because most opponents only expect to see knights, uber characters, some dogs and a centre piece dragon or something.Chariots are the t!ts. 2 Chariots can soften up anybody's battle lines. They are 120 point (or is it 100) burning logs of death. Big beefy blocks of marauders, like 25 or so, are always good along with a fully stacked chosen unit or regular warrior unit. I think for a WoC army to work, you need redundancy (2 of everything at least) and balance. Fast armies are great, but there is no staying power. Infantry armies are great, but lack mobility and reach.

And a shout out to the angry dog faced god on the brass throne: Making the Warhammer world a better place one skull at a time.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:Well I played against a 3 mage/BSB, 2 knight units, 2 marauder cav units, giant MOS, 2 DOs and 14 chaos warrior and 25 marauders today with my NGs (2500pts)

Smashed him 2747VP to 1454VP.

The only unit I struggled against was the chaos warriors. Their rank bonus and great combat potential vs my crappy ranked units made them almost unstoppable, but foot of gork and 4 bolt throwers put some fear into them.

Acctually IIRC the Marauders, a mage and 2 knights were all that were left. I'll do a report up (go to battle reports forum)

Having played 30+ games with the new WoC, I kinda see the problem facing anything nasty without gateway-casting mobile mage/hellcannon-combo even if you have the "full cav" mode on. As with previous edition HoC, dragons and such can be annoyance that you really can't catch, but with the caster+cannon you have an ok chance in most games. It's funny to notice that the gate is probably at it's worst vs o&g horde as they don't really have very good targets for the spell (barring giant if he's around).

It has to be said that I often play with the etc-comps on, which boosts the WoC-power in relation to the heavy hitter armies in particular.

I am currently running an all cav setup with WoC and so far the games have never been out of reach and quite fun.

3 x 5 M Horsemen -- MoS, Musicians, LA, Flails
3 x 5 Knights -- MoN, Full Command, 1 with magic banner +1 res

Still varying my hero + lords but the army still tends to play the same. Use the horsemen to screen heavy shooting (though MoN knights are hard to shoot in their own right). Push fwd with fast cav, throw the axes, flee when charged, reform and repeat. If it is a low combat strength unit you can probably win with flails. Use knights to attack flanks to negate blocks and you should always out wound with 11 strength 5 attacks and 1+ armor saves.

skyth wrote:Slaanesh is immune to Panic, Fear, and Terror but they can still flee

When a unit is Immune to Psychology, it cannot choose flee as a charge reaction. Slaanesh's mark makes them ITP. That is why Seekers of Slaanesh, an awesome fast Cav unit, are not the best in the class as they are unable to flee.

No it doesn't make them ITP. It makes them immune to fear, terror and panic. Similar, but not the same.

Ah, I must read my book again. I was under the impression MoS made you ITP. Thank you for the correction.

HiveFleet, you may be thinking of the old Marks (or the Beast of Chaos marks).

RZ

Also what do seekers have to do with MoS in the warriors book?

I was just making a comparison of Fast Cav in general, and in relation to the marauders who I mistakenly assumed were ITP, since that will affect fast cav performance and roles, since I do know that ITP cannot choose flee as a charge reaction. That makes the baiting tactics which fast cav are famous for completely usless with seekers, and so instead of have a fear causing, ward save, lots of attacks nasty baiter...you are left with a very effective glass knife of a cavalry unit.

However, since I am now wiser with how MoS has changed for WoC, I can completely agree that yes, that IS awesome for fast cav