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This was the other situation I ran into at Ard Boyz.


1. My rhino moved 6", then it gets shot and immobilized. Is it 4+ to be hit or auto hit in hand to hand combat?


2. My rhino gets surounded by kroot, 1 kroot in order to get to the back hatch presses right up against the hull of the vehicle (as tight as you can push in) and 2 other kroot do the same thing on one side of the rhino. The front if totally surrounded, 3 kroot deep, and the other side of the rhino is up gainst the side of the board. My rhino gets wrecked.... I measure 2" from the hull... I find that I can place exactly 2 members of my squad 2" from the hull, and slightly though obviously more than 1" from either kroot. The question, my opponent was doing a stretch to block all my hatches and wanted my unit to die inside the rhino, to do that he had to push up against the hull, this left a more than 1" gap between his models and the two of mine that were able to exit 2" from the hatch. Essentially some of his bases were from a top down view, you couldn't see the bases on a few of his kroot becuase they were underneath the overhangs of the rhino.

I kinda think he shouldn't have tried so hard to block all the hatches, if he hadn't pushed up so close, I think i could have gotten just a single flamer out the back hatch. But since he pushed the envelope I just measured to where I could legally place my models...

thoughts?

1. I'm inclined to say auto-hit, because although it had moved, the present-tense use of the word "is" on the table suggests it overrides, so in this case your rhino had moved but it is immobilised.

2. Unless he actually broke the assaulting rules (i.e. moved them too far or in the wrong order), then that's just run-of-the-mill tournament competitiveness I'm afraid. If someone is being TFG about it though, you can always point out to him that since GW bases are only 25mm, then it is entirely possible to deploy models within 2" of the hull on the other side of a model in base contact with the vehicle (note that "within 2"" includes any part of their base, see the embarking diagram) if they are in base contact, you can measure 1" from their base and still have a whole 0.4mm to put the edge of your base on.*

*Not recommended in actual play unless you feel like losing a few teeth

1) Auto hit.

2) Emergency Disembarkation covers this. If all the hatches are blocked, you go anywhere around the vehicle but you are pinned. He has to cover the whole vehicle to keep you from getting out.

12thRonin wrote:1) Auto hit.

2) Emergency Disembarkation covers this. If all the hatches are blocked, you go anywhere around the vehicle but you are pinned. He has to cover the whole vehicle to keep you from getting out.

Just to be clear, even with the emergency disembarkation you 1) must remain at least 1" from enemy models and 2) must be in unit coherency. So if the squad embarked on a rhino, for example, is too big to fit inside the "footprint" of the destroyed rhino and remain more than 1" away from snikrot's kommandos or kroot or what not then the unit dies.

Currently raging debate about #2. It has to do with the use of the work "deploy" or "place" instead of "move".

Is Emergency Disembarkation really movement? That is the question.

If it is the squad inside your Rhino would be dead as you cannot move within an inch of an enemy model. You would have to have a 3" gap between the models to move through them meaning your enemy would be out of unit coherency.

If you simply PLACE or DEPLOY the models and can ignore movement restrictions, then the squad could be PLACED within 2" of any point of the Rhino. With a single file of models wrapped around the Rhino you could place your troops in the gaps caused by the circular bases... basically at the points where the circles converge.

Holy Smokes.... we do that kind of stuff in war machine...... And you are right... the actual safety distance is .6mm I should print out some cheatsheets with this info on it.. very cool to know!

unistoo wrote:
2. Unless he actually broke the assaulting rules (i.e. moved them too far or in the wrong order), then that's just run-of-the-mill tournament competitiveness I'm afraid. If someone is being TFG about it though, you can always point out to him that since GW bases are only 25mm, then it is entirely possible to deploy models within 2" of the hull on the other side of a model in base contact with the vehicle (note that "within 2"" includes any part of their base, see the embarking diagram) if they are in base contact, you can measure 1" from their base and still have a whole 0.4mm to put the edge of your base on.*

*Not recommended in actual play unless you feel like losing a few teeth

Page 63 clearing states "Attacking a vehicle that moved at combat speed in its previous turn" is a 4+
Immobilized vehicles may not move for the rest of the game. Unless the Rhino repairs the immobilized result, it will be auto-hit in subsequent turns, yet for the turn it is immobilized it will still be hit on a 4+

If you like -- imagine that the shot blew the treads loose on the rhino and it is skidding to a halt. Rushing up to hit to punch the skidding rhino would be just as hard as hitting one still moving. Once it has ground to a halt, it will be easy to open with your powerfist.

labmouse42 wrote:Page 63 clearing states "Attacking a vehicle that moved at combat speed in its previous turn" is a 4+
Immobilized vehicles may not move for the rest of the game. Unless the Rhino repairs the immobilized result, it will be auto-hit in subsequent turns, yet for the turn it is immobilized it will still be hit on a 4+

If you like -- imagine that the shot blew the treads loose on the rhino and it is skidding to a halt. Rushing up to hit to punch the skidding rhino would be just as hard as hitting one still moving. Once it has ground to a halt, it will be easy to open with your powerfist.

Pg 63 BRB...... Attacking a vehicle that IS immobilised OR was stationary in its previous turn. = Automatic hit

Imagine that the shot blew the engine on the Rino and it stalled and halted right where it was.......it is easy to run up and punch a vehicle that just came to a complete halt.

DJ Illuminati wrote:Pg 63 BRB...... Attacking a vehicle that IS immobilised OR was stationary in its previous turn. = Automatic hit

Imagine that the shot blew the engine on the Rino and it stalled and halted right where it was.......it is easy to run up and punch a vehicle that just came to a complete halt.

That's true. I missed the previous paragraph.
If this is not addressed in a FAQ, I would pass the question to the tournament judge. If it were a friendly game, I would suggest a D6 rolloff to see what happened to the rhino -- IE is it grinding to a halt on its move, or did it stop suddenly...

labmouse42 wrote:

DJ Illuminati wrote:Pg 63 BRB...... Attacking a vehicle that IS immobilised OR was stationary in its previous turn. = Automatic hit

Imagine that the shot blew the engine on the Rino and it stalled and halted right where it was.......it is easy to run up and punch a vehicle that just came to a complete halt.

That's true. I missed the previous paragraph.
If this is not addressed in a FAQ, I would pass the question to the tournament judge. If it were a friendly game, I would suggest a D6 rolloff to see what happened to the rhino -- IE is it grinding to a halt on its move, or did it stop suddenly...

I see where the confusion is, however look at it this way....if the immobilised result doesnt apply to vehicles that moved in the previous turn then why does it say "immobilised OR was stationary......"

Sazzlefrats wrote:This was the other situation I ran into at Ard Boyz.


1. My rhino moved 6", then it gets shot and immobilized. Is it 4+ to be hit or auto hit in hand to hand combat?

Autohit.

2. My rhino gets surounded by kroot, 1 kroot in order to get to the back hatch presses right up against the hull of the vehicle (as tight as you can push in) and 2 other kroot do the same thing on one side of the rhino. The front if totally surrounded, 3 kroot deep, and the other side of the rhino is up gainst the side of the board. My rhino gets wrecked.... I measure 2" from the hull... I find that I can place exactly 2 members of my squad 2" from the hull, and slightly though obviously more than 1" from either kroot. The question, my opponent was doing a stretch to block all my hatches and wanted my unit to die inside the rhino, to do that he had to push up against the hull, this left a more than 1" gap between his models and the two of mine that were able to exit 2" from the hatch. Essentially some of his bases were from a top down view, you couldn't see the bases on a few of his kroot becuase they were underneath the overhangs of the rhino.

The big question here is did your unit consist of more than just the two models? I don't see anything in the rules that allow a partial emergency disembark, and the normal disembarking rules do mention that if any the models in the unit cannot safely disembark the whole unit must emergency disembark; The disembark rules call for the entire unit to disembark safely (emergency or otherwise), if impossible to do so the unit must stay inside the transport.

I see your point..

I will agree that from a ruling standpoint immobilized counts as an auto-hit.

[quote=Lordhat
The big question here is did your unit consist of more than just the two models? I don't see anything in the rules that allow a partial emergency disembark, and the normal disembarking rules do mention that if any the models in the unit cannot safely disembark the whole unit must emergency disembark; The disembark rules call for the entire unit to disembark safely (emergency or otherwise), if impossible to do so the unit must stay inside the transport.

If it's wrecked, yes models that are unable to disembark are destroyed

What prevents you from disembarking on top of a wrecked vehicle? It's just dangerous terrain no? IIRC you just have to disembark within 2'' of a hatch, the hatch on a rhino is from top to bottom which would give you an avenue of escape to on top of the wrecked vehicle (which is now considered terratin right?)

This would then also keep you out of range of the Kroot models that are surrounding the base of the rhino.

MrDrumMachine wrote:What prevents you from disembarking on top of a wrecked vehicle? It's just dangerous terrain no? IIRC you just have to disembark within 2'' of a hatch, the hatch on a rhino is from top to bottom which would give you an avenue of escape to on top of the wrecked vehicle (which is now considered terratin right?)

Because you disembark, and then the vehicle is wrecked, in that order. i.e. at the time you are forced to disembark the vehicle wrecked result has not taken effect yet.