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No wolves on Fenris wrote:
Just been reading my current codex again and for some reason I’d never read the grapnal launcher rules properly for Reivers. From what I can tell, if the whole unit has the launchers they basically have “Strategic Reinforcement” already for free (as in no CP cost) as in they can arrive from any table edge. Or am I reading that wrong?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I’m also liking the new Primaris Chaplain on bike. A good way to get litanies further up field fast and I’m wondering if he’ll get the “devastating charge” rule that the Outriders got? If so give him the relic crozaius and Imperiums sword warlord trait and have fun with the Outriders.

Better than the new rule, as it’s any table edge when they show up.

Which doesn’t solve the reivers main problem of not actually doing much when they show up for their points. They have two nice move/deploy options (which they have to pay extra for) but all they bring are a few S4, no AP attacks. Which marines are not lacking for ways to get.

I’m really liking the look of the chaplain. As long as his points are OK, he could see a bit of table time. Assuming he’s not priced crazy from a $$ POV. With what they ask for primaris characters on foot, who knows what heights they will reach for a bike one.

Is it worth them having the carbines then and clearing artillery and characters from back field

No wolves on Fenris wrote:
Is it worth them having the carbines then and clearing artillery and characters from back field

In a word: no.

Marines arent lacking in Character killing options, and with the advent of another means of deep striking there's far killier shooting platforms that can be delivered to the enemy backfield.

 Nevelon wrote:

No wolves on Fenris wrote:
Just been reading my current codex again and for some reason I’d never read the grapnal launcher rules properly for Reivers. From what I can tell, if the whole unit has the launchers they basically have “Strategic Reinforcement” already for free (as in no CP cost) as in they can arrive from any table edge. Or am I reading that wrong?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I’m also liking the new Primaris Chaplain on bike. A good way to get litanies further up field fast and I’m wondering if he’ll get the “devastating charge” rule that the Outriders got? If so give him the relic crozaius and Imperiums sword warlord trait and have fun with the Outriders.

Better than the new rule, as it’s any table edge when they show up.

Which doesn’t solve the reivers main problem of not actually doing much when they show up for their points. They have two nice move/deploy options (which they have to pay extra for) but all they bring are a few S4, no AP attacks. Which marines are not lacking for ways to get.

I’m really liking the look of the chaplain. As long as his points are OK, he could see a bit of table time. Assuming he’s not priced crazy from a $$ POV. With what they ask for primaris characters on foot, who knows what heights they will reach for a bike one.

My guesstimate is €40. Which is indeed expensive but it's not something I'd be unwilling to pay. Model looks gorgeous and if the Outrider rules are anything to go by he'll be a lightning fast, durable beatstick with a diverse selection of aura's. A White Scars one that's promoted to a Master of Sanctity with double Warlord Traits and Adamantium Mantle for extra beefiness or Benediction of Fury for extra choppiness looks especially tasty. Or a Space Wolves one with Saga of the Hunter using Touch of the Wild on the charge.

I’ve been a chaplain fan from the start, through thick and thin, when their rules were great, or garbage. No model quite captures the soul of 40k like a chaplain. Which is appropriate. I might balk at the price, I might wait for him to show up on amazon discounters so I can use guilt-free gift cards, I might cringe when I add him to cart, but I will pick him up eventually.

Obviously without points or rules in hand, we can only guess at how effective he will be. But what we can see looks promising. Will it be as effective as other options? Who knows, that’s a fickle tiger to chase. Will it be fun to scream litanies to the Emperor, zoom across the battlefield, and put a crozius through the head of some filthy heretic? You know it will be.

Cpt. Icanus wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

Cpt. Icanus wrote:
I'm returning to my Black Templars with the new melee models. I intended to get some Impulsors to emulate the rhino rush of old, but those things are superexpensive money wise. Am i better off slamming a few repulsors? What is the "must have" core of Primaris? (Besides Cap, Lt and 3 Intercessors ofc )

Honestly? Everything in Indomitus is must have for Templars.

I sure think so, i'll get more of those bladeguard vets as soon as they hit shelves ^^
The question was more aimed at the rest of the army though, like repulsors or impulsors for transport. Do i need an executioner as fire support or do a nappy dread or two suffice? Are eliminators necessary? For troops i think of a large blobe of assault intercessors, 5mam regular Intercessors and some Incursors for backfield fun, but those won't take apart tanks. And since i didn't play my men in black for some time and don't have many primaris models i'm curious to know, what actually works on the tabletop.

Redemptor Dreads are good solid fire support for sure. If your playing Black Templars, 2 units of 10 assault intercessors in 2 Repulsors crashing into the enemy with the Bike Chaplain and some Outriders would be a nasty charge.

Edited, nvm.

So, per the new FAQ, White Scars (attack) bikes no longer ignore the penalty from heavy weapons, but all White Scars now ignore the penalty from Advancing and Firing Assault weapons.

In addition to advance and charge, of course.

*Page 175 – White Scars: Lightning Assault
Change the second sentence of this Chapter Tactic to read:
‘Models with this tactic do not suffer the penalty for Advancing
and firing Assault weapons.’

Surprise, you're a primaris foot army now?

Objections, thoughts?

Voss wrote:
So, per the new FAQ, White Scars (attack) bikes no longer ignore the penalty from heavy weapons, but all White Scars now ignore the penalty from Advancing and Firing Assault weapons.

In addition to advance and charge, of course.

*Page 175 – White Scars: Lightning Assault
Change the second sentence of this Chapter Tactic to read:
‘Models with this tactic do not suffer the penalty for Advancing
and firing Assault weapons.’

Surprise, you're a primaris foot army now?

Objections, thoughts?

Isn't the ignore heavy penalty part of the main rules for everyone bar infantry? So the attack bike would be fine?

You're right. Hadn't integrated that yet. Was thinking 'vehicle' rather than 'not infantry.'

That explains some of the change, but not the rest, especially given how many assault weapons there are in primaris units. Except, ironically, the bikes. Though those are a good charge unit.

So I've seen conflicting things on this:
I'm getting the (hopefully double) marine side of indomitus, and I really want to paint them as pre-angron world eaters, and maybe mix it up with some chainaxes/head swaps.
Because of this, do I have to use successor chapter/make my own rules? Because I'd really like to be able to still use white scars rules because No1 I think that they are a very good fit of the lore of world eaters (war hounds) as they were before the nails and khorne, and also because I want to go white scars for the rules benefit.
(The context here being that I'll only mostly play in my local gw, however if I think my army gets good enough I would want to play at a tournament level)
If I do instead have to run a successor, what rules do I still get from them? As someone new to marines I've yet to wrap my head around them and the mixing pot of what successors get.
Cheers, am really looking forward to getting my hands on choppy marines

 McMagnus Mindbullets wrote:
So I've seen conflicting things on this:
I'm getting the (hopefully double) marine side of indomitus, and I really want to paint them as pre-angron world eaters, and maybe mix it up with some chainaxes/head swaps.
Because of this, do I have to use successor chapter/make my own rules? Because I'd really like to be able to still use white scars rules because No1 I think that they are a very good fit of the lore of world eaters (war hounds) as they were before the nails and khorne, and also because I want to go white scars for the rules benefit.
(The context here being that I'll only mostly play in my local gw, however if I think my army gets good enough I would want to play at a tournament level)
If I do instead have to run a successor, what rules do I still get from them? As someone new to marines I've yet to wrap my head around them and the mixing pot of what successors get.
Cheers, am really looking forward to getting my hands on choppy marines

Very worst case you run them as a White Scar Successor which gives you everything except the White Scar special character (Khan) and the White Scar relic (Tho you can spend 1 cp to still get the relic)
But I would expect most (all) to be ok with you running them as 'true' White Scars.
As always up to the TO.

Big guns never tire, and Invictor Warsuit stealth nerf:

Not really a nerf, just a strange reversal in the rules; but "Heavy Sidearm is still a rule on the Invictor with the new FAQs. This means that we can either still Fire the Heavy Bolter, or every other gun that isn't the fragstorm while in engagement Range. Not sure about the rest of you , but I would rather have the 2d6 equal-stat auto-hitting shots plus 6 Heavy Stubber, or 6 S7 d2shots plus 6 heavy stubbers than just 3 HB shots (I mean, ideally I would rather get the HB shots as well).

I have been thinking about the impact of Strategic Reserves as turn 1 protection on the Devastator Doctrine chapters, and I really hope GW will FAQ back/change in the new codex the limitation of DD to turn 1.
As IH/IF, your most important targets could be absent from the table the turn your shooting is more relevant (just to pop in unscathed and unleash their firepower unmolested). This clearly devaluates further their superdoctrines.
Putting any two relevant tanks is already 2 command points spent in SR, but they will have them in spades this edition. We will see if that defensive strategy is used a lot against us or only rarely.
All in all, it starts as a nerf for those two former glories.

Anyone looked at which units for the imperial fists will shine this edition? I’m struggling to make anything competitive. My experience so far is their “sons of Dorn” trait is useless now. All the extra terrain means all my games so far means I have very few targets until turn 2. Also, the price increase of heavy bolters was a kick in the groin. Also, centurions are useless and dead to me at 95pts each now.

broxus wrote:
Anyone looked at which units for the imperial fists will shine this edition? I’m struggling to make anything competitive. My experience so far is their “sons of Dorn” trait is useless now. All the extra terrain means all my games so far means I have very few targets until turn 2. Also, the price increase of heavy bolters was a kick in the groin. Also, centurions are useless and dead to me at 95pts each now.

I ran a spreadsheet and Repulsor Executioner with Macro Plasma is one of the units which benefits the most from Sons of Dorn. It's also a really good target for Tankhunters and Garadon's 2+ to hit.
In addition, Fly should be useful to get out of hiding, and could (correct me if I'm wrong) allow to get on second/upper floors of ruins (or other Escalable terrain) for better LoS.
Close second come Suppressors, with a good increase in their damage output from Sons of Dorn. Also very easy to hide then get into position (even if suffering from -1 to hit).

I'm ignoring oldmarines because I don't play them, but Droppod Grav Devastators should remain properly scary on turn 1.

All in all, 9th edition sounds like a nerf for IF and I hope some rebalancing is done later. But I don't think we are useless, yet.

I heard no more Vigilus Campaign detachments in 9th. Even a bigger nerf to IF. Since Sons of Dorn is useless and I can’t take detachments. I have no idea what is worth taking.

broxus wrote:
I heard no more Vigilus Campaign detachments in 9th. Even a bigger nerf to IF. Since Sons of Dorn is useless and I can’t take detachments. I have no idea what is worth taking.

Only for tournament matched play - it's a rule in the Chapter Approved book. They're still perfectly legal when using the Eternal War Matched Play missions in the main rulebook and every other format that isn't the GT mission pack.

 Asmodai wrote:

broxus wrote:
I heard no more Vigilus Campaign detachments in 9th. Even a bigger nerf to IF. Since Sons of Dorn is useless and I can’t take detachments. I have no idea what is worth taking.

Only for tournament matched play - it's a rule in the Chapter Approved book. They're still perfectly legal when using the Eternal War Matched Play missions in the main rulebook and every other format that isn't the GT mission pack.

I would expect most tournaments (outside of maybe ITC if they keep doing their own thing) to copy the GT mission pack and generally the Pick-up game scene tends to mirror what the tournament scene is doing.

 Asmodai wrote:

broxus wrote:
I heard no more Vigilus Campaign detachments in 9th. Even a bigger nerf to IF. Since Sons of Dorn is useless and I can’t take detachments. I have no idea what is worth taking.

Only for tournament matched play - it's a rule in the Chapter Approved book. They're still perfectly legal when using the Eternal War Matched Play missions in the main rulebook and every other format that isn't the GT mission pack.

Yea I really only play tournament style games. It seems that is going to be the norm. This really really hurts Imperial Fists. With all the SM which were directed at Iron Hands it has put them in a bad spot in 9th. I play multiple armies and honestly they are now the worst off I guess at least my Death Guard army is much better.

After looking at the new points does anyone have any idea why a Contemptor dreadnaught is the same point cost as the Relic Contemptor dreadnaught vastly better. Am I missing something???

broxus wrote:
After looking at the new points does anyone have any idea why a Contemptor dreadnaught is the same point cost as the Relic Contemptor dreadnaught vastly better. Am I missing something???

GW stated that points increases for 9th were to allow for more granularity after repeated points cuts since forever (which is true - back in 2nd ed, a basic bolter marine cost 30 points and a lasgun guardsman was 10). The new points however are blatantly just an arbitrary rounding up with no attempt at balancing units within factions or cross faction and the Contemptor variants are just one of the more obvious examples - grots vs guardsmen and grav cannons vs heavy bolters are more examples of things that have no business being at the same price point.

broxus wrote:
After looking at the new points does anyone have any idea why a Contemptor dreadnaught is the same point cost as the Relic Contemptor dreadnaught vastly better. Am I missing something???

Nice find. Ya, there is no reason to take a normal contemptor now and those were already good.

broxus wrote:
After looking at the new points does anyone have any idea why a Contemptor dreadnaught is the same point cost as the Relic Contemptor dreadnaught vastly better. Am I missing something???

The missing piece here is the new FW index. No idea how the relic contemptor will adjusted rules wise.

Did they say when the FW units were going to be updated?

Relic Contemptor's don't fit into a list when you have to take another elite if you aren't taking any others at that point.

Isn't it time for a new thread? Or are we waiting for the next codex?

 ultimentra wrote:
Isn't it time for a new thread? Or are we waiting for the next codex?

seems best to me to wait for a new codex. not a lot for marines has changed since codex 8.5 and we know that our codex is coming in Oct. where I guess we'll need to welcome our DA, BA, SW and DW brothers.

Holy gak you're right... this is a bigger deal than I realized. Not only is that book going to be enormous but also there won't be separate angels and wolves threads anymore... wow... how times change.

 ultimentra wrote:
Holy gak you're right... this is a bigger deal than I realized. Not only is that book going to be enormous but also there won't be separate angels and wolves threads anymore... wow... how times change.

I've actually suggested, although it doesn't sound like it'll happen, they create some subforums. I mean ideally I think it'd be nice to have a IH, SW, UM etc specific tactica thread.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790436.page#10880493

there's the suggestion, might be an idea to go weigh in.