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Thoughts or suggestions? I have some points left, but this is the first thought/ run through.

Prince, Starlance, Dragon Armor, Shield, Barded Steed, Vambrances defense (re-roll armor saves/ ward)
Mage, lv 2, Barded Steed, scroll x2
Noble, lance, dragon armor, shield, barded steed, bsb, warbanner

Archers x10
Archers x10
Spear Elf x18. command.

Dragon Princes x6, command
Dragon Princes x5, command, +1 to go first roll
Dragon Princes x5, command, MR (1)
Tironic Chariot
Tironic Chariot
Tironic Chariot

Bolt Thrower x2
Eagle

Now I am commenting as from a tournament list for my local area which means the list needs to be a bit harder than it is. So here goes:

1. Not sure what you are trying to accomplish with the spear elves. The damage output is just too short against most in my area. Reroute the points to more effective units.

2. Give the warbanner on the BSB to the Dragon princes. This lets you give magical equipment to the BSB. I have found the following combo really nice: Helm of Fortune (1+ rerollable save with the stuff he has on him) and the talisman of loec (if you don't take the talisman of loec here you need to find a place for it).

3. More bolt throwers. You need them to take down things you cannot fight in hth. Bloodthirsters (heck any greater deamon), dark elves suped up units of black guard and hydras. I would take at least 1 more.

4. I have started spending the points on lion chariots for a couple of reasons: A. They cuase fear and thus are immune to the fear cuasing forces I inevitably play. b. The 6 str 5 attacks after the impact has saved my butt over and over again compared to to 4 str 3 attacks. c. Ignoring the truns after in which lion chariots are far superior do the math on the first turn. 3 tironic chariots will get 11 str 5 impact hits, 6 str 3 horse attacks, and 6 str 4 spear attacks. for a total of 11 str 5, 3 str 3, and 4 str 4 hits. Against T4 opponents this leads to 7 str 5 wounds, 1 str 3 wound, and 2 str 4 wounds. Against 4+ armor this leads to approximately 7 dead. Now 2 lion chariots cost about the same. You get 7 str 5 impact hits and 3 str 5 fighting hits. For 6-7 wounds and 6 dead probably. You loose 1 wound against t3 opponents on the charge turn only and you cgain an almost infinite increase on further rounds plus the fear and in addition you have now opened up one of the all important special slots.

5. I have found myself scrounging for points often times so musicians often get left at home.

6. I know that many people are a fan of the star lance. Frankly I have found that I am not. Sure str 7 is great but the guy only has 4 attacks so that one round of hittyness just doesn't seem worth it to me. My personal opinion on this one and seems to fly in the face of alot of other people so feel free to dismiss it.

When building a tournament list I ask myself the following questions:

1. How will I deal with the Vampire raising ghouls faster than I can kill them?

2. How will I deal with a tzeentch magic heavy list (I think you have this one wrapped up).

3. How will I deal with a bloodthirster of doom. (In my area you will always see at least one in the tournament).

4. How will I deal with the impossible block of unbreakable, stubborn, black guard who always strike first and have 3 attacks on the first turn with an assasin and the unkillable lord.

5. How do I kill 2 Hydras.

Answer these questions before you attend a tourney in my area becuase there will be at least 2 armies with these builds.

@BrPrometheus:

Don't under-estimate spear-elves. Do they dish out a lot of damage? Depending on your opponent, not really (they're not stellar against T4/AS4+ or better). Sheer volume of attacks makes them fairly resilient, and from my experience, they're decent at holding their ground for at least a turn. Long enough to bring in another unit as a flank charge.

@njpc

As BrPrometheus suggested - Leave the Warbanner for DP standard Bearer. Instead, grab the Battle Banner. +D6 CR is a great thing to have.

If you're not planning on taking a Dragon, I'd suggest dropping the prince down to a noble - the stat upgrades from a Noble to a Prince don't really justify the points (you pay about 2x the points for only about 1.5x the improvement). Save the points (I also think the Starlance is a bit over-rated, though admittedly great against chariots) for other goodies, like the aforementioned Battle Banner (I personally run a Noble with DP-kit and Helm of Fortune as my general).

I would personally drop the command on most of the DP units to save points and avoid banner captures (very possible given the list), but that's just me. I'd find room to fit in another eagle for redirecting and march-blocking.

If all you're using that mage for is scroll caddying, drop the lvl upgrade and the steed. Just keep him hidden inside a wood.


Basically, I run a similar list, but have found myself disliking the lack of static "anvil" blocks of having 3 units of Dragon Princes. While they can be devastating in combat, even the loss of one or two DPs reduces their effectiveness by a lot and their ability to stick around after the charge is very limited.

As BrPrometheus asked - what armies are you likely to face?

Great thoughts! I'm very happy with the input. I'm thinking your both dead on with the BSB, knocking that warbanner to a unit of dragon prince, I will probably lose the musician's as well, i've questioned myself on there need as i'm either going to win big, or not at all.

I've had similar thoughts on the lord, I don't think i'm dependent on his leadership, and while his wargear is good, he's being t3 isn't saving him as much, dropping to a noble is a good idea.

Points saved can go into making a tironic chariot a lion chariot. Awesome model, and i do like the idea of extra str 5 swings.

What are both your thoughts on the star lance? I'm all ears, because from tournment play it looks great but i've forced dragon princes to get stuck in and then the star lance is a non factor. Regular lance? Make the attacks magical with wargear on 1 unit?

The Spear elves are out of the list, i'm thinking another unit of archers and a 3rd bolt thrower are a better fit.

Eh, I still wouldn't necessarily toss out the spears. They're really not as bad as people make 'em out to be and they're not a threat that can be easily dismissed by your opponent. Though, if you really need the points, go for it.

Personally, I think the Lion Chariot's a shade over-priced for what it can do, but it's not a bad choice by any means.

Re. Star Lance - it's not a bad item, but personally, I tend to favor items whose benefits extend past the first turn of combat (mostly 'cause the dice gods hate me). As such, I tend to run a Noble with the Sword of Might (S5 hits all the time). The Amulet of Light isn't a bad item to take if you know you'll be facing Wood Elves/Wraiths.

The spear elves just do not seem to have the staying power of the other high elf infantry for their points. Basically 15 spear elves give you 2 ranks, light armor and shield for a 5+ save and 15 ws 4 str 3 attacks. That costs ~ 150 points. For the same price you get 10 swordmasters or 10 white lions. The sword masters give you 1 rank 10 attacks at str 5 ws 6. Comapr the damage output and you will find the sword masters and lions almost always win becuase the lack of copmbat res is always met by the additional kills.

As I said earlier I am not a fan of the star lance. other than chariot hunting I find it a bit on the expensive side for what it does. Frankly I am not a big fan of any of our magic weapons. The asf means that I get a two handed weapon and the appropriate str increase for much less. Mounted this means I am strength 5, on foot strength 6. The sword of might is a good one and I will often take it on a mounted character to keep the shield and lower the armor save.

A couple of other notes. The high elf special choices almost always allow a 25 point magical item and a 50 point banner in them. Take advantage of this to give your force some advantages. here are a couple of my favorite combos:

Dragon Princes: Amulate of Light (all attacks are magical), banner of Elyerion. --> Perfect counter to wood elf tree singing and vc ethreal units.

Dragon Princes with war banner, put the BSB in the same unit. The unit now has a static res of +3.

Skiensliver - I am not taking a prince often times so finding a champ in one of the units to put the skien sliver is always key. I play 3 bolt throwers so when ever I can go first it helps alot.

@BrPrometheus -
Re: Spear elves, no, they don't have the same staying power as other high elf infantry, and they shouldn't. They're basic RnF. They're not going to do as well in protracted combats as White Lions or Swordmasters, but they're not supposed to. Against most basic enemy infantry, the spear elves are phenomenal, imo, and easily can earn back their points. They should be worse against enemy elites, but that's to be expected. I won't argue with you that the Swordmasters and White Lions are better than spear elves, but I would like to stress that I personally feel that they're under-rated or under-utilized by a lot of people.