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What is the official order of operations for rules inconsistencies?

Here is the example I'm looking at.

The rulebook establishes that bikes may turbo boost in their scout move.

The Dark Angels codex establishes that "No model may make a turbo boost move whilst using the scouts special rule"

The Rulebook FAQ clarifies that bikes may indeed turbo-boost in their scout move.

The dark angels FAQ does NOT make any mention of turbo boosting during a scout move.


I am familiar with "codex trumps rulebook" but I'm hoping current FAQ trumps codex. The dark angels ruling of no turbo boost during scouting is pretty lame as it stands anyway. According to its wording, no model on either side may turbo boost during a scout move if the dark angels codex was in use. It does not specify 'dark angels model'.

Thanks for your help. And for crushing my hopes (most likely)

Specific > General

Editing to add, I am looking up /reading details and hit "submit" - not really meaning that to be so short

err.... hmmm. Usually codex trumps BGB, so even a FAQ for the general rules is only updating the BGB which is still secondary to the codex.

I don't know....

I'm inclined to say that per RAW you can't turbo, but... ehh, it's pretty obvious that with the FAQ out in the general BGB they intended it to overturn all of the previous mentions of there being no TB for scouting units.

This one is still in the air... maybe Kirsanth or someone will shine some light on the issue.

Sorry, I cannot get to books atm, so I checked the FAQ.

That applies to bikes, why would it not apply to a specific subset of bikes?

Are DA bikes not bikes? Why would the general rule NOT apply?

Edited to add: Codex does not trump main rules. Period. Full stop. See: Sweepin Advance.
The confusion is based on the fact that most of the time the codex is more specific.
The exceptions cause more issues than most things.

Specific trumps general.
If a general rule applies, a specific rule needs to say it does not - or at least say what happens instead.

More later.

eh well, not exactly.

I mean... take impassible terrain. You can't move through it.. with the right things you can move over it though.

However, in the Necron 'Dex you have things that literally say move THROUGH it.

If the codex didn't trump then whenever you tried to do so, even with the rule the model has from the codex, a person could say look at the BGB: you can't do that.

See, no one plays that way though. Everyone always says consult the codex, if it says you can or can NOT that takes precedence of the BGB.

If you say in this instance, The BGB says you CAN, but your codex says you can't -- and you side with the BGB-- you're also nerfing the codexes that say you CAN when the BGB says you CAN'T.

At least that's the way it seems to me.

There are plenty of special traits, characteristics, and powers which fly in the face of certain core rules. IF the BGB always kicks their rear... then are all those abilities just misleading fluff? I certainly don't think so. I just don't see how anyone can say you get all the buffs but also none of the bad stuff.

Then again, I do wear glasses so maybe what I'm seeing is just off. What does everybody else think?

generally codex > rulebook, although there are a few rules that specifically state that no matter what, something cannot happen. One example of this would be the no stat can be higher than 10 in the BRB. In the ork codex, it states (losely) that an ork mob has a leadership of X if x is the number of orks in a squad over the leadership of the ork mob. If the mob numbers 11 or more then it gets fearless. So you could have 30 orks, but they would only have a leadership of 10 and fearless as the BRB states that no stat may be modified above 10.

Basically it is common sense for the most part. Codex trumps BRB (due to the specific trums general rule) UNLESS the BRB states that something cannot occur (I have yet to see a "can" occur trumping a codex though).

So in short: no, you cannot turbo-boost in your scout move unless a future errata changes this.

On the upside, your combat-squadded Ravenwing LS squadrons are scoring, IIRC.

Are you talking about their mixed squads which are... really strange?

I think it can have like 3 Bikes, an Attack Bike, AND a Skimmer, lol

The Drgaon: You are wrong, it is indeed Specific > General, not simply codex > rulebook: it is just most of the time the codex is more specific than the rulebook is.

It is why sweeping advance denies WBB, why death or glory denies WBB, etc.

The order of precedence is: specific beats general.

General rules for bikes - rulebook
Specific rules for *DA* bikes: DA codex

The specific rules int he DA codex, while more restrictive, are the ones you must therefore use. Noone ever said being more specific is always a benefit.

Correct, DA Bikes have their own rules.

It's why no-one plays Dark Angels except for Deathwing anymore (as Ravenwing can Easily be Emulated with the Ultramarine Codex)

I concur with the assessment that saying codex > BRB is a gross oversimplification. Its specific > general

A more reliable method of resolving conflicting rules is as follows:

Break no rule. If two rules give incompatible directions, follow the more specific rule.

ie: Shooting attacks tell you to roll to hit on a D6, but more specifically blast shooting weapons tell you to roll a scatter and 2d6. Since blast is a more specific type of shooting, you follow the blast rules instead of the general shooting rules where the two give incompatible directions (such as rolling to hit).

In the case of DA bikes, you follow the rules in the BRB for bikes, and any differences listed in the DA entry for bikes takes precedence since the BRB rules are general rules for bikes, and your DA codex has rules specifically for DA bikes.

Yep, no Turboboost for bikes, but scoring Land Speeders (when taken in a RAS).

Well, thats the closest I've been to getting them to scout, thanks for keeping an open mind and spelling it out guys.

Yaaa. I got to read, and then noticed you actually spelled it out for me.

Ooops.

... well everybody said I was wrong but you all ended up coming to the same conclusion I did-- that because of the DA rule mentioned in codex they couldn't TB.

Also,
I see you all using WBB in reference to SA and Death or Glory as showing where BGB can trump codex but even that example is wrong in the manner in which you framed it.

WBB doesn't work in those instances because the models are not removed as per the rules of WBB, not because of some blanket BGB command. Specifically, as you all helped to ram it down my throat, because WBB must trigger because of being reduced to 0 wounds or otherwise being removed as a casualty. Only attacks in melee, shooting, instant death, and specific instances that mention "being removed as a casualty" trigger WBB.
Neither SA or DOG fit those criterion and thus don't trigger the special rule-- which actually, if it did say remove as a casualty, would pop the BGB in the face and take precedence.

Irregardless, I can see some instances where your point is still highly valid. i.e. orks having Ld equal to the number of models in their unit (possibly 30+), but actually being limited to Ld 10 because that is the FINAL limit.

You know *laughing to myself as I write this* thinking of it in these terms, I guess I can see where you guys are saying specific over general. For the absolute basic, core limits of things like Strength, Leadership, etc. the BGB reigns supreme at one point or another-- however with other rules.. say as we discussed, bike movement, the specific rules mentioned in the codex trump.

Oh well, still, for the sake of simplicity I'd just as soon say codex reigns supreme other than in those situations where an absolute limit/standard is set by the BGB.

The Dragon wrote:Irregardless

I lol'd

The Dragon wrote:
You know *laughing to myself as I write this* thinking of it in these terms, I guess I can see where you guys are saying specific over general. For the absolute basic, core limits of things like Strength, Leadership, etc. the BGB reigns supreme at one point or another-- however with other rules.. say as we discussed, bike movement, the specific rules mentioned in the codex trump.

Oh well, still, for the sake of simplicity I'd just as soon say codex reigns supreme other than in those situations where an absolute limit/standard is set by the BGB.

Aaaand that was what people were saying you were wrong about. Not the conclusion, but the wording you used to explain it.( See Gwar!)

Your Ork example is a much nicer one to explain why people disagreed with you though, I will give you that!

Gwar! wrote:

The Dragon wrote:Irregardless

I lol'd

I did chuckle slightly myself

my order and the order we play in at my FLGS:
Codex 1st, then Official Errata, next Main rule book, then FAQs.

psf3077 wrote:my order and the order we play in at my FLGS:
Codex 1st, then Official Errata, next Main rule book, then FAQs.

So Sweeping Advance Means nothing to you then?

The only things that are officially less important are the summaries in the back of the codices (superseded by the main entries) and the summary in the back of the rulebook (which is superseded by the codex).

Otherwise the specific overrides the general.

I mean... take impassible terrain. You can't move through it.. with the right things you can move over it though.

However, in the Necron 'Dex you have things that literally say move THROUGH it.

If the codex didn't trump then whenever you tried to do so, even with the rule the model has from the codex, a person could say look at the BGB: you can't do that.

The problem is, that's a matter of the specific rules from a codex overriding the general rules for impassible terrain. As a counter example, Al'Rahem has an order that allows a unit to move d6 inches; does this allow the unit to move d6 inches through impassible terrain? The answer is no, because the rules for moving through impassible terrain are more specific than the rules in the codex (which merely allow the unit to move).

Thus the already agree upon and proven point is fleshed out more. You know ... someone should just go ahead and 'article' this with all the good examples and explanations.