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Alright, so I am in a league at my local Games Workshop with some of the employees and a few highly competitive vets.

We will be playing a standard mission, rolling both for deployment and mission. So annihilation and control points are both options. Kill points need to be kept low enough to not get to a point where I can't make a comeback without killing his entire army (the way I lost my last match) but with enough troops to capture points where needed.

My match this week is Space Marines. He will most likely be bringing Vulcan, Thunderfire cannon (or two), Whirlwind/razorbacks w/ heavy flamers or Vindicator, and plenty of SM with flamers. He might take a librarian w/ null zone so taking Grotsnik and cybork bodies are pretty much useless. Also drop pods w/ Dreadnoughts and/or tactical squads are likely. He doesn't do the few but elite space marine squads, he takes cheap but big squads; which lately has been tough to deal with. He is a very methodical defensive player, forcing his opponents to be overly aggressive and get into places that are good for him.

This the list I have at the moment. Afterwards I'll list what I have so you can see what I have to work with (I do not have money to purchase anything new, so I'm stuck with what I got).

HQ
Ghazghkull
Big Mek - Burna, Kustom Force-Field, 'eavy armour

Elites
Burna Boyz x 11 (these will be w/ the Big Mek in the Battlewagon)
Kommandos x 10 - 2 burnas, Snikrot

Troops
Slugga Boyz x 30 - Nob w/ Power Klaw
Slugga Boyz x 30 - Nob w/ Power Klaw
Shoota Boyz x 30 - 3 Big Shootas, Nob w/ Power Klaw (by this point you'll notice a lack of bosspoles. I have found that the rare occasions my squads are no longer fearless, re-rolling a Morale check does not help, but it is 5 points and easily added back in if advised)

Fast Attack
Deffkoptas x3 - Rokkits, 1 buzzsaw
Deffkoptas x3 - Rokkits, 1 buzzsaw

Heavy Support
Battlewagon - Killkannon, red paint job
Looted Wagon - Boomgun, big shoota, rokkit launcha, 'ard case, red paint job

Total 1985 (11 Kill points, but enough to capure or at least contest objectives)

The basic tactic is to turbo boost my scout move to threaten his thunderfire cannon or his other heavy support. Hopefully I get first turn and can move and shoot and then assault them if possible, if not hope that the 3+ cover works (dragonfire (?) rounds would totally ruin this). The battlewagon with the Big Mek adding cover and the 12 (16 if i drop the killkannon) flame templates that can drop a squad if lucky. Snikrot is another ploy to take out those long range blast shooters such as the Vindicator (kind of, 24" is long enough) Whirlwind or Thunderfire. Most would look at this and question the Killkannon/Boomgun choices and its because they are large blasts that ignore normal marine armour. I can drop these if a suitable alternative is suggested. In fact most of this list is able to be changed. The only keepers are probably the Ghaz since that waaagh will help immensely and the Kommandos because I just painted Snikrot and really want to use him (but again, suitable replacement and he's gone).

Here's what I have to work with:

Ghaz
Grotsnik
Big Mek w/ KFF
2 Warbosses w/ Powerklaws (and attack squigs)
1 Warboss w/ Bike and Powerklaw (don't like to take him unless I have nob bikers or more warbikers)
Old Zogwort/Wierdboy/Warphead


10 Nobz w/ Sluggas and Choppas (These were AOBR so the best I can stretch them to is Big Choppas)
2 Nobz w/ Powerklaws & Boss Poles (The third is a proxy that the others are cool with)
1 Painboy w/ Grot orderly

12 Kommandos
1 Kommando Nob w/ Power Klaw & Bosspole (This is the proxy since I would rather take
Snikrot

10 Lootas (not in the list because 10 is not effective enough against space marines, not being ap3 and not a full squad of 15 make them had to use against them)
5 Tankbustas (slow progress on these)
~110 Boyz (roughly 30 w/ shootas)
5 big shootas
10 grots
1 runtherd w/ grabbaklaw
5 trukks

10 storm boyz (no nob)
3 warbikers
13 deffkoptas w/ rokkits (i've recieved a bunch of AOBR sets)

2 Battlewagons (usually w/ zapp gunz and 2 big shootas, don't have deff rollas, wish i did)

1 Deffdread - 3 Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons, 1 skorcha
2 Killakans - big shootas
I would prefer to not use these because transporting them is a major pain*

6 Flash Gitz
Kaptain Badrukk

3 Big Gunz - Zapp Guns - 1 ammo runt

3 Looted Wagons - Variable equipment (boomgun to skorcha, bigshoota to rokkits)

*I take public transit, so as a side note: I'd prefer to take a lot of boyz OR a go mekanized to make my commute easier, taking both is a annoying.


Any help with the list or tactics in general would be appreciated. Thank you in advance and sorry for the long post.

Those Space marines will be Overwhelmed. well done.


Also, You could talk to your friend about using a different method for K.P. I always measure the kill points by how many points were included in the squad i killed instead if it always being 1 KP. even though i play space marines, it makes it fair for my swarmy friends!

Let the green tide consume!!

Kill points is the set scoring system for the league when it comes to annihilation. There are 12 people (including me), and I'm the only Ork player*. Tough but it happens.

*The others are:
3 x Space Marines
1 x Black Templars (Elites style, Lots of Termies, and Grey Knight Termies as back-up)
1 x Dark Angels (Ravenwing & Deathwing hybrid list)
3 x Chaos Space Marines
1 x Tyranids (Geanstealers and Carnifexs, so doesn't have the kill point problem)
1 x Eldar (Jetbike Seer Council and Fire Prisms)
1 x Daemons

You sound like you know what you are doing.

13 deff koptas. My lord that would be awesome to field. I always wanted to max out deff koptas in a list and do a big bomb raid. All those templates as 15 deff koptas speed by, that's got to be fun. The next round they will get shot up, but a couple buzzsaws might find their mark.

I never liked the killkannon on a BW being used as a transport. I always just used regular kannons on my BWs and deff rollers for grinding up infantry. Let me know how that works out. I'd make sure to keep that looted wagon far out of harms reach. It's made out of cardboard.

I'd cut the big shootas off the kans and put rokkits or KMBs on them if I were you. Then they would be worth fielding (and transporting). It would be nice to get some BS3 units in there if you really want indirect fire.

I always do bosspoles. Running sucks. Sweeping advances suck worse. The boyz are all about the assault, and for 5 points it would be nice to know you have a bit of a safety net.

The burnas are going to be your money unit. It's nice to have that many power weapons agianst MEQ armies.

I would like to field that many too, I wish there was a Deffkopta Fleet apoc formation.

Well off to my match (which I would have posted this sooner as to get more responses).

Are you on a time limit? If not, then you can go with more of a horde army -- an option not available in tournaments due to time limits set on games.
I am going to assume that you are not on a time limit -- which leads us to the next stage...strategy. This is the best advice I've ever seen on making orks work.

Orks can do anything that any other army can do and do it better than they can. However, they cannot do everything that any other army can do. Make sense? If you make an ork assault army, they'll out-assault any other army in 40k. If you make a shooting army, you can outgun IG or Tau. If you
go foot-slogging, or mechanized, or kan-wall....all those options make you a completely awesome army, but there's a catch. You can only do one of
them at a time with an army list.

If you combine a mechanized and a foot-slogging list, you're going to lose. If you have part assault, party shooting, you're probably going to lose. Your strength is in being able to pick something and be completely awesome at it. So before giving you advice on where to go next with your army, you need to pick a theme and build around it. If you want a bike army, or a shooting army; an outflanking army, mechanized, assault, figure out what your playstyle is and start building your units and armylist around that idea.

THAT is the strength of Orks.

Based on your models, this is what I would run as your army. This is a horde army with 150 models on the table. This is 1995 points, and I'm sure you can tweak it to your liking.
HQ 210 pts
[105] Warbosses w/ PK, Attack Squig, 'eavy Armor
[105] Warbosses w/ PK, Attack Squig, 'eavy Armor
Have one warboss join Snikrot's crew and bring him from behind the enemy. Snikrot uses Ambush, not inflitrate so your warboss can join in his fun. This will not make you friends -- but if your playing a highly competitive player they will respect you. Expect to play an additional phase -- the argument phase -- when you spring this on him.

Elites 265 pts
[265] 15 Kommandos w/Snikrot.
Use 2 burnas in here. Use a normal boy for your last kommando to fill the squad to 15.

Troops 935 pts
[230] 30 Shootas + Nob w/PK + 3 big shootas
[225] 30 Sluggas + Nob w/PK + 2 big shootas
[245] 30 Sluggas + Nob w/PK + 3 rokkits
[235] 30 Sluggas + Nob w/PK + 2 rokkits
We are using your rokkits and big shootas here to allow you to bring 30 man squads. It's not ideal, but you need to try and bring 4 squads of 30 boys. Looking at your models you can make it work if you use some heavy weapons. You might also just use some AoBR nobs as normal boys to fill up these squads -- you can use that to save 60 points if you can find a good spot to put them.

Fast Attack 585 pts
[180] 4 Deffkoptas w/Twin Linked Rokkits
[225] 5 Deffkoptas w/Twin Linked Rokkits
[180] 4 Deffkoptas w/Twin Linked Rokkits
These are your main AT. Turbo boost them and use them to take care of vindicators, whirlwinds, dreadnoughts, etc... These models are awesome for AT, as twin linked rokkits have a 1/3 + 1/3 chance of hitting -- some of the best shooting in your army.

Strategy
Missions
You have 4 units you can use to take objectives, being annoying hard to kill while in cover. Utilize this to your advantage. You only need to hold more objectives than him, so either keep him away from your objectives and use your koptas to contest his starting at turn 5
In KP missions, you give up 10 KPs. You should do well on these missions as its hard to completely wipe out 30 ork squads. If your up 3 VPs and its turn 5, just take your boys and go to ground for the last turns in cover. Boost your bikes to the back of your lines to deny VPs. If your opponents are competitive players they might call you cheezy but they would do the same thing.

Deployment
The mission type depends on your deployment. In dawn of war, don't fall into the temptation to put 61 boys in the middle of the board. They will be stranded from the rest of your army. Instead put one or two models in a congo line to the center -- this pushes him back, and keeps your models close to your mob.
A warboss joining Snikrot is just mean. The worst part is that he can leave the squad during the movement phase and tear up another squad/tank by himself. With 6 STR 6 hits on the charge, I've used snikrot to rip open tanks, tie up oblit squads for the game, its very effective -- and will destroy whirlwinds if required.

Tactics
Remember that your army may move slowly, yet can burst with surprising speed. When you Waagh, you can move 6", Fleet 1-6", and Assault another 6". On the turn you waaagh, use this to your advantage and surprise him. Even when not waaghing, running can really make those boys move faster than expected.
If you have rokkits in your boyz squads, use them on rhinos. If you can't get to the crunchy marines inside, thats a great way to crack a tank. Hell, if your big shootas don't have anything better to fire at, use them too, you might blow off a weapon or keep it from moving.
Your main tool to destroy his vindicator, dreads, and whirlwinds are your koptas. Use the turbo boost at the start to keep them alive. He will probably fire the whirlwind barrage that does STR 4 and ignores cover at them. Thats fine -- its STR 4 AP5, so your koptas will be fine. He wounds them on a 5, and you get a save.

Have one warboss join Snikrot's crew and bring him from behind the enemy. Snikrot uses Ambush, not inflitrate so your warboss can join in his fun. This will not make you friends -- but if your playing a highly competitive player they will respect you. Expect to play an additional phase -- the argument phase -- when you spring this on him.

I actually used this with Ghaz in my match. No argument, just explained that how it worked and why and he found it reasonable. Both the GW employees in the league agree that it is a perfectly legal tactic, sneaky but legal. and in the end:

All of the squad assaulted Vulcan, and whiffed 3 combats straight. Then Ghaz died. Then I was assaulted by assault marines with a chap. All i did was 1 wound to him.

A squad of koptas killed them selves trying to get in range of the vindicator (2 died from dangerous terrrain, the last failed it's morale and flew off the board).

Yeah, we played spearhead KP, with very little terrain (it was all occupied by other games, real disappointment). I was kinda forced to put my troops in reserve to avoid just template spam on turn one (Thunderfire cannon, whirlwind, vindicator, 3 iron clads w/ heavy flamers and 2 plasma cannons). The game was pretty much beyond hope by turn 3.

I'm playing his friend next, who has a very similar style but more agressive, I think i'll do the list you suggested.