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In spite of going 1 and 1, my last 2 games of 40k have been very frustrating, so I am hoping for some input from the community to help me get back on track. I have been playing at vanila marines at 1750 vs Orks. I really want to be an assault based list, which is admittedly a tall task vs orks (especially 400pts worth of nobs). I am not trying to win tournaments or anything, I just want to be able to win a bit more often. I have ~4k worth of SMs ready to go, so I have a lot of options for builds, but I just need to hear some suggestions on how to get it done. Here are my basic guidelines:

a) would rather not use land raiders (have a crusader/redeemer, but I dislike land raiders because of cost to killiness ratio)
b) would rather not use termis (again, I have them, but dont like them even though i admit they are super strong. I just dont like how many points you sink into them)
c) I want to do most of my dmg with assaults (shooting is fine vs specific targets, but i would like to be able to do most of my work with CC)
d) I am not a huge fan of the SM special chars, but would be willing to try a counts-as


Yes, I realize that the list above is basically impossible and will never result in competitive builds. I just want to see if there are some suggestions I havent thought of to at least get me a bit more competitive. List/Unit suggestions, Tactics, wargear choices, etc. All very useful for me at this point. I am 100% aware that I could revert to a more standard, drive around shooting stuff, or landraiders with terminators, type approach and win with regularity. I just dont love that style of list and want to figure out if there is a way to play a list I think is "fun" and to also be competitive against my normal opponent.


So far my biggest problems all seem to come down to powerklaws. They just own my little men over and over again. The 2 versions I see all the time:

1) PK nob + big mob of slugga boys (slugga boys arent too bad as long as i play smart and dont let them get the charge. But they provide so much ablative armor for the nob that his PK still gets to eat a ton of marines)

2) nob squad (no bikes, usually in a truck) - TONS of PK attacks, my opponent tools them up to a slowed degree and while he doesnt typically wound cheese it, they all have invul + FNP and go through basically anything in my entire army with ease.


Shooting feels like its probably the best bet vs the nobs (been thinking vindi, but i dont think ive rolled a 'hit' on a scatter die in the last 3 months), but would love to hear other opinions/suggestions.

Assault Marines, Vanguard, Ironclad Dreadnoughts, Chaplains, and Tactical Space Marines. Use Tactical Marines and Iconclad Dreadnoughts to soften up Ork mobs with Flamer-type weapons, and to hold them in assaults. The Tactical Marines withdrawal in the Ork turn, opening up avenues for Chaplain-led Assault Marines and Vanguard to gang up on Ork mobs and rip them to shreds with massed attacks. Ironclad Dreadnoughts contribute to the violence, run interference on Ork walkers, peel open Ork vehicles, and generally make like hard for them.

Regarding the Nob Bike squad, use Thunderfire Cannons to punish him with Dangerous Terrain tests, or use Whirlwinds to soften up mobs for the assaults, to deprive Power Klaws of their ablative boyz, and use Vindicators vindictively.

Count Bonchula wrote:2) nob squad (no bikes, usually in a truck)..

+

Nurglitch wrote:Regarding the Nob Bike squad..

Ironclads with AV13 front armor and walker-assault rules will happily eat a ton of str8 pk attacks whilst dishing out instant death attacks. Those nobs will get worn down and swept or crunched. You may loose the dread or it may simply be damaged but it will easily kill a good few nobs. Especially ironclads with dual heavy flamers (but make sure you keep a bit of melta elsewhere).

Chaplin + any assaulty squad is win, remember to equip the squad with the proper gear. Flamers & power weapons, ideally. Heavier stuff if they can. Likewise, tactical use of ATSKNF with tactical squads is good.

Lastly, deny the orks the assault. Str 4 orks with the +1A for charging makes them a whole lot worse.

Razerous wrote:

Ironclads with AV13 front armor and walker-assault rules will happily eat a ton of str8 pk attacks whilst dishing out instant death attacks. Those nobs will get worn down and swept or crunched. You may loose the dread or it may simply be damaged but it will easily kill a good few nobs. Especially ironclads with dual heavy flamers (but make sure you keep a bit of melta elsewhere).

yeah, ironclads have been good for me in the past, although its a bit unforgiving if a suprise waagh or bad measurement lets the nobs charge. Ive been playing some PS (as defender) lately so they have been staying on the shelf. May have to make a comeback soon though.

Chaplin + any assaulty squad is win, remember to equip the squad with the proper gear. Flamers & power weapons, ideally. Heavier stuff if they can. Likewise, tactical use of ATSKNF with tactical squads is good.

yeah ive just started using assault squads with chap. in the 2 games they have seen, first game they wiped ~20 boyz the turn they charged, 2nd game they got the charge, did 1 PF wound vs a nob then died. probably In spite of the numbe rof attacks and the power weaps, probably should have taken them elsewhere that game.

Lastly, deny the orks the assault. Str 4 orks with the +1A for charging makes them a whole lot worse.

yeah definately been trying to work on that. fast open topped trucks and waaghs sometimes make it tough to judge (for me at least).



So what is the recommended loadout for a Tac squad in this scenario? flamer seems like a given, then what? power sword/fist? melta bombs? which heavy weap. Razorback or Rhino (would they ever want to walk?)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My Tac squads have always been a bit disapointing, since they dont have BP/CCW like chaos they tend to be pretty underwheliming in CC. I have always felt like I havent been using them very effectively and have tried several things.

Multi-melta & a meltagun * combi-meltas. Powersword only if you plan to run them into assaults but thats not nessicary when fielding alot of assault-based troops.

Why? You need somthing to take-out tanks/trukks and whatnot. Get your own rhinos to hop your squads closer to then disembark & start shooting into the truckks or boys.

Assault squads can get flamers so leave them to the flamery goodness. As can the ironclads with heavy flamers; (anti-ork-everything-bar-mega-armoured-nobs weaons).

Ive always thought that completly naked vanguard would be decent, for 4 points, you get +1 attack and chainswords, stick 'em in a rhino and charge into orks, even though I must admit, trying to out assault orks is quite the bad idea. For hidden PF's get a vindicare assasin hitting on 2+ wounding on 4+ (2+ with hellfire) you will be popping nobs in no time, load a turbo penitrator and watch as 2 wounds dissapear.

sniperjolly wrote:For hidden PF's get a vindicare assasin hitting on 2+ wounding on 4+ (2+ with hellfire) you will be popping nobs in no time, load a turbo penitrator and watch as 2 wounds dissapear

assassins get expensive. youd need to take an inquisitor lord with at least 3 henchmen for a minimum of 63 points and an hq slot thn the 110 points and elites slot for the assassin. total of 173 points. thats almost enuf for 3 dakka preads with HB sponsons.

this is my marine "assault list" works pretty well agaisnt msot things, never tried agasint orcs but does very well for itself.

shrike (counts as) 195

10 man tac squad x2 340
10 bolter 10 bolt pistol

10 man assault squad x2 410
1 power weapon

10 man terminator assault squad 400
10 TH/SS

10 man terminator assault squad 400
10 LC

total 1745
may be slow but with his orcs hes probly moving toward you as well so probly combat turn 2 maby 3 and dont forget with shrike your units have fleet so you can move run and assault.

pah, 63 points, more like 20! just buy a vanilla elite choice, might as well make it usefull and get 2 mystics. Besides, it was a joke.

sniperjolly wrote:pah, 63 points, more like 20! just buy a vanilla elite choice, might as well make it usefull and get 2 mystics. Besides, it was a joke.

joke or not its is usefull. but read you DH/WH codex you only get one elites choice so you have to go for the HQ inquisitor to pick up an assasin.

Chaplains are a great boost for a squad, letting them re-roll failed hits. Also, don't forget Pedro Kantor's Inspiring Presence which gives everyone in 12" an a extra attack.

Scott-S6 wrote:Chaplains are a great boost for a squad, letting them re-roll failed hits. Also, don't forget Pedro Kantor's Inspiring Presence which gives everyone in 12" an a extra attack.

They are both great, but I still like shrike for his fleet ability, I guess one could drop kantor and shrike and take shrikes fleet ability, but I really only like kantor in Sternguard lists.

Chaplains on the otherhand are pure PWN with some WIN sauce. thats why I take 10 of them in my apoc list 4 termie 6 jump pack. its great to see the look on my oponents face when I drop 44 termies that reroll misses in the first round of combat, as well as 40 vanguard and 20 assault marines. (my apoc list is basicly a 1st company and a battle company)