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Yeah, so how would that work? Say you have a Landraider / Rhino / what have you. Can you infiltrate behind it?

Like a Demolisher set up forward at 18 and such can you set up behind it out of its arc of fire and be out of LOS?

BGB Page 75 wrote:Infiltrators may be set up anywhere on the table that is more than 12" from any enemy unit, as long as no deployed enemy unit can draw a line of sight to them.

It says draw a line of sight, I would think not by my interpretation of the wording.

If you can somehow deploy 18" behind a Demolisher in Open Ground and not be in LOS to any other enemy unit, your opponent is doing something seriously wrong.

Remember that multiple weapons can swivel.

So a Demolisher could swivel its turret and draw los.

It does raise an interesting point though, If say the enemy deploys only a single rhino at midfield in dawn of war, what is its' effective line of sight for you attempting to infiltrate behind it?

Bla_Ze wrote:Remember that multiple weapons can swivel.

So a Demolisher could swivel its turret and draw los.

A Demolisher cannon is forward Hull mounted, not turret mounted. Hull Mounted weapons cannot swivel.

Malecus wrote:It does raise an interesting point though, If say the enemy deploys only a single rhino at midfield in dawn of war, what is its' effective line of sight for you attempting to infiltrate behind it?

Since the nightfight special rule is only in affect at game turn 1. And infiltrators only infiltrates in the deployment turn.

Gwar! wrote:

Bla_Ze wrote:Remember that multiple weapons can swivel.

So a Demolisher could swivel its turret and draw los.

A Demolisher cannon is forward Hull mounted, not turret mounted. Hull Mounted weapons cannot swivel.

Im pretty sure a demolisher cannon is turret mounted. Gwar is wrong, yay!

You mean the Demolisher on a Vindicator? No, it is no WAY turret Mounted.

On a Leman Russ it would be. I was talking about the Vindicator, because I need to lrn2read

Malecus wrote:It does raise an interesting point though, If say the enemy deploys only a single rhino at midfield in dawn of war, what is its' effective line of sight for you attempting to infiltrate behind it?

Couldn't the Pintle Stormbolter see behind it?

Pintle Weapons have a 360 LOS so yeah it could see it.

Yeah but what about vehicles such as Dreadnoughts does a dreadnought have 360 degree arc?

Also, I was talking about the space marine vindicator sorry.

Also, the Landraider Terminus is the same way everything is forward.


This came up because I played against someone he had 2 landraiders I set my scouts behind them as he didnt have pintle mounted MultiMeltas.

RustyKnight: I think Malecus was hinting that in a night fight turn it would have to roll for LoS.
See my answer up there

Gwar!: Though you meant a Demolisher tank.

But woulden't the Vindicator still have a pintle Stormbolter up top?
If i remember correctly they should have one.

Vindicators do not have a pintle mounted storm bolter without paying the extra points for it.

uh-- untrue- partly. SM Vindicators at the low, low cost of 115pts have both the lovely demolisher cannon, AND a pintle-mounted storm bolter.

Chaos vindicators on the other hand.....nope.

As for Infiltrate versus vehicles and line of sight, this really reminds me of a crazy discussion about Chaos Dreadnoughts and having to charge at the closest unit they can see when they go nuts.

I remember one of the theories was that if you had them up front, and their weapons line of sight purely on the enemy, they couldn't see your own forces around them when they lose their gak and go crazy, and thus would always charge towards the enemy instead of turning to the friendly unit at their side and giving them the old 1-2.

I really think this discussion taps into that one in the sense of-- what is a vehicles true line of sight as sight versus sight as targeting an enemy? Is there a difference-- are they the same?

Just looked up the SM vindicator again, and you're correct, they have a storm bolter, although hilariously it is not specified as a pintle-mount in the unit's entry.

willydstyle wrote:Just looked up the SM vindicator again, and you're correct, they have a storm bolter, although hilariously it is not specified as a pintle-mount in the unit's entry.

Doesn't matter (at least if you're using GW's FAQ's) since they ruled that the hull mount for the Storm Bolter also has a 360 degree view.

yeah, plus I think in the armory section there actually is a mention stating that they are in fact pintle-mounted-- I remember having to dig the rules up for a game against a poster-child for TFG who brought in flyers and didn't want even flimsy storm bolters getting a chance of a shot off on him.

Yeah but I mean would I be correct in that I could put my Scout squad BEHIND a landraider.

Basically I used the landraider to block LOS from his army but he also couldn't see them from my point of view with the landraider as everything was forward.

Well, actually that point of discussion was lost with our gossip about vindicators.

Really, this happens to be one of those hazy fields where you need to ask beforehand or you end up rolling off for it because you waited till you tried to play to bring it up.

Seriously, this exact technical discussion harkens DIRECTLY back to the argument about Chaos Dreadnoughts and what they can "see" for the purposes of them going Bat-Shlt crazy.

Anyways, on the matter of vehicle sight....

In this case, there might be a skewed reference somewhere but likely, only someone like Gwar, Insaniak, or Kirsanth, etc. will be able to drag it up for you.

If you put something 12" behind his Landraider, some of the army might get los.

And if you try to hide them on its "side" it might draw los since the sponsons can pivot.
Raiders can also get Pintle Stormbolters

It was just a weird situation i guess. he didnt have a problem with it but we rolled off anyway to make sure.