Old wording... what does it mean?- Dark Eldar Hellmask -

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**Iago**

Ok so, the Dark Eldar Hellmask says "each close combat opponent must test"... does this mean unit or model?... I have been doing unit so far as model seems like it would just bog down the game. But I was wondering what you all thought of this.

Cheers!

**Thor665**

The rule officially reads "Close combat opponents must pass..."

All of your opponents have to take a leadership test, and units take leadership tests together, not singly. Therefore the hellmask zaps the entire given unit and either they're all good or they're all spooked.

Awesome to see another DE player here as well.

**Gwar!**

Each CC Opponent means Each Opponent unit in the CC. See similar wording on the Multiple assault part of the rulebook

**GiantKiller**

Thor wrote:and units take leadership tests together, not singly

I agree that units typically take leadership tests together. But I don't see anything in your post to support your argument that the hellmask's language "close combat opponents" is referring to an entire unit rather than a single enemy model or that subset of enemy models which have directed their attacks against the model with the hellmask.

This is an interesting issue and I don't think it can be so easily dismissed.

Here's more fuel for the fire: The Daemonhunters codex also uses "opponent" language in the context of storm shields' 4+ invul. save. "The save may only be used against one opponent per turn (the defender chooses who to use it against)" Codex

H p.18 The DH storm shield is therefore much more effective if opponent is interpreted to mean "enemy unit" as opposed to "enemy model"

-GK

**Gwar!**

Well, making a single model take a Ld Test just does not work, so it HAS to mean unit.

**GiantKiller**

Gwar! wrote:Each CC Opponent means Each Opponent unit in the CC. See similar wording on the Multiple assault part of the rulebook

I think I'm missing the similar wording you're referring to (not being snide here, I lack complete faith in my reading comprehension skills). I see references to "enemy" and "enemy units" on BGB p. 41 (Multiple Combats) but nothing about opponents or opponent units. Which language are you basing this on?

-GK

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gwar! wrote:Well, making a single model take a Ld Test just does not work, so it HAS to mean unit.

I find that to be too big of an assumption.

Mind war works just fine causing a single model to take a LD test. Every non-vehicle model has a LD value. As for vehicles, the only vehicles a hellmask could affect are walkers, which ignore morale checks anyway, so it's moot.

-GK

**Gwar!**

/me headdesks.

There goes me opening my mouth before opening my Codex.

I thought it was a Morale Check, not a Ld test.
In this case, the individual models in BTB with the model with the Hellmask take Leadership tests (not Morale) and if they fail, those models only need 6's to hit.

**Thor665**

Hmmm, interesting. Out of curiosity what effect would this then have on the 5th ed. rule book pg. 8, the second paragraph under Ld. Tests.

"If a unit includes models with different Leadership values, always use the one with the highest Ld value."

Would this then suggest that if, say, a given Hell mask Archon were being based by some generic Assault Squad Space Marines each of them would test individually and on leadership 9 if they have a Sergeant in the unit?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

GiantKiller wrote:
Thor wrote:and units take leadership tests together, not singly

I agree that units typically take leadership tests together. But I don't see anything in your post to support your argument that the hellmask's language "close combat opponents" is referring to an entire unit rather than a single enemy model or that subset of enemy models which have directed their attacks against the model with the hellmask.

This is an interesting issue and I don't think it can be so easily dismissed.

At this point I concur with you. It appears I was probably wrong.

Edit: Additional thoughts

Reading through the rulebook under "leadership tests" and "pinning" it appears that a (and we all knew to expect this from GW) normal Leadership Test is taken by the entire unit - so insofar as that went I was correct. However, there is no explanation I can find about abnormal leadership tests (a big shocker, I'm certain). So the question then becomes, does the Hell Mask count as a non-normal Leadership test.

I suspect there is a pretty strong argument that, yes, it is, and that each model swinging on that unit takes the test separately. Though if anyone can find info on what counts as a normal and non-normal Ld. test it would probably help clarify the situation somewhat. (I've been playing this one inappropriately for ages!

)

**Iago**

In anything, I can see both sides of the page on this one. But for the sake of making the game go faster, I think that one test per unit would be the easier way to go... especially against newer players, too many wierd things can get confusing.

**Thor665**

Agreed, you could probably even argue on a RAW standpoint that unless the Leadership test states it is not a normal one, then you should take a normal one - which would then be taken by the unit's highest leadership and apply to all models attacking the model wearing the Hellmask (which is how I had always run it and probably will continue to do so as well) I just wish I could find cleaner language one way or the other.