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So we have all read the general fluff on the lexcanim, but does anyone have more specific background on the chapter with the unknown primach? Or maybe their connection with chaos or world bearers?

They're supposedly the descendants of Thousand Sons, who wouldn't be loyalists because they were all on Prospero when Leman Russ attacked and got drawn into the Warp. If the Thousand Sons geneseed is used, then it explains why the chapter has so many psykers.

In dawn of war II, veteran scout sergeant Cyrus mention that captain Angelos burned founder history of the chapter to "Hide a dark truth."
So yes, the BR are supposed to be descendants of a thousand Sons! Or at least chaos.

Ahhh i thought somewhere the word bearers refered to them as brothers, thus leading me to my confusion! Did GW just leave it vauge to torture me, or is that as far as the fluff goes?


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On a side note, how did they get ahold of a thousand sons gene seed material? is the chapter newish? or how did they escape their brothers fate? AHHH

I think that the Imperium and Traitors have used each other's geneseed on rare occasions. The Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, and Fabius Bile all have a history of stealing geneseed to create new Marines using dark technologies.

The term Bother was used as an Insult to make the Blood Raven feel connected to the Evil in which the Word Bearer represents. They have a common Father, the Emperor, thus forming a bloodline brotherhood among the Marines.
Well that is what I got from it.

If they are truly descendants of the Thousand Sons, then I want to see a Loyalist Emperor's Children. "Perfection achieved through the death of the flawed."

Sanchez01 wrote:If they are truly descendants of the Thousand Sons, then I want to see a Loyalist Emperor's Children. "Perfection achieved through the death of the flawed."

My "eventually" 40k project is a force of Emperor's Children that never turned traitor, and who feel that their Primarch was simply overtaken by his daemon weapon. They are called the Redeemers, and fight against chaos and the traitor Emperor's Children whenever possible. They are still equipped with their heresy-era gear.

The Space Marines from the Chaos Legions who remained loyal founded the Grey Knights, FYI. The GK geneseed is a cocktail of theirs, not the Emperor's (as that is reserved for the Adeptus Custodes).

The Space Marines from the Chaos Legions who remained loyal founded the Grey Knights

Really? I thought they made the Inquisition, not the Knights.

My "eventually" 40k project is a force of Emperor's Children that never turned traitor

Dude that is Awesome. I was considering doing 1 of 2 things after I finish my current Pordjects.

1. A Half Chaotic EC army. Mix them with Loyal Marine parts to give less corrupted look.
2. A regular EC army.

Cheese Elemental wrote:The Space Marines from the Chaos Legions who remained loyal founded the Grey Knights, FYI. The GK geneseed is a cocktail of theirs, not the Emperor's (as that is reserved for the Adeptus Custodes).

I know that, I've read the books. The EC in my army did not get back as early as those on the Eisenstein, so they weren't brought into the whole Daemonhunters deal.

Where do you guys get this history? its very interesting?

The internet


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http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page

This one time Corax and Sanguinius got real drunk and well...

9 months later the first Blood Raven appeared.

A few years later the Angel Guard were formed in much the same way.

I assumed wordbearers because in Dark Crusade Eliphas calls them brothers, and when thule says they aren't epliphas chuckes and says whatever you say, impling that he knows their history.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:This one time Corax and Sanguinius got real drunk and well...

9 months later the first Blood Raven appeared.

A few years later the Angel Guard were formed in much the same way.

Because the Space Marines all technically share a bloodline, is that gay incest?

I'm pretty sure HH implies that the Inquisition was formed from members of the Fallen Legions who never turned traitor, not the Grey Knights specifically. Also, the Grey Knights are all psychics, which not all the loyal marines from the traitor legions were.

The Collected Visions book describes a group of, I believe, 6 hooded men being brought before the Emperor after he defeated Horus, but before he ascended to the Throne. Some of these were desribed as being very large (space marine) while others were normal. The charge given to them by the Emperor sounded more like the beginnings of the Inquisition than the Grey Knights - though it could have meant both.

In one of the HH books, the one with thee death guard guys on the moon, mentions something about starting something like the inquistion.

Early GK background stated:

"The Grey Knights are unique in that they have no antecedents. The Chapter's geneseed was designed from an unknown source by the Adeptus Mechanicus. The high ratio of psykers in the Chapter points to a source outside of the normal processes of existing Space Marine Chaprers There are conflicting reports of when this chapter was founded. U believe that the accoubt of their being the first chapter created after the Heresy to be the most likely. However, it is also rumored that they were created under the direct orders of the Emperor during the Great Crusade."

That would suggest loyal survivors of traitor legions would not be a source for the Grey Knights.

Of course, other early background also says they were created "during an unregistered Founding shortly after the (official) Third Founding." ... "They are listed as a Third Founding unit, and by the Emperor's instruction, were designated Chapter number 666"

Another suggestion that Heresy era marines did not creat the GK.

I know GW retcon a lot, but did they really make heresy survivors the GK founders?

Dal'yth Dude wrote:I know GW retcon a lot, but did they really make heresy survivors the GK founders?

No. I've read many of the books released by Black Library concerning the marines, and the HH, and I haven't seen this idea in any of them. Several publications of the last few years support that the heresy survivors might have become the founders of the Inquisition, not the Gray Knights.

For the Grey Knights - What I know (I have no direct source) is that they were founded by the remnant loyalist Death Guard. GKs have so many psykers because they only recruit psykers, ergo all of their men are psychic in some way.

Also, the Inquisition and Grey Knights (the Ordo Militant of the Inquisition) could have been founded at the same time making that Collected Visions book true.

And Ph34r, I thought that Fulgrim was taken over by the Daemon Painting, not a Daemon Weapon?

About Blood Ravens having the Geneseed of the Thousand Suns, it could be VERY possible. Remember, Prospero was only driven to Tzeentch after he warned the Emperor of what was going to pass (Horus turning) and the Emperor had "banned" witchcraft (hard for prospero to comply no?) so he ended up sicking the wolves on them and bam.

Now, the Emperor kept samples of all the Geneseeds (even traitors) and probably had geneseeds of all the chapters, so re-founding a psyker legion would be VERY possible.

its not up the emperor any more whcih chapters are founded he is a dead husk.

Also you mean Magnus.

During the cursed founding a numebr of chapters with manipulated geneseed were created and all the records are damaged or missing so the parent legion for these chapters could be anything or could be 2 merged ones. So the idea of a 'renegade' legion's geneseed being used to create a new chapter isn't that far fetched

To be fair, in earlier GW materials the Emperor gave orders while in the Throne. Over time that communication ceased.

Original GW fluff also had Ravenwing as being founded by Captain Oblonsky while attacking an orc world, the Ultramarines were a very late founding chapter, Night Lords were a Khorne legion, and also had several different versions of who survived the Isstvan Massacre.

I'm still unclear on how loyalist Death Guard could have founded the Grey Knights since no materials from 1st and 2nd editions could support that and I have seen no sources posted in this thread that would suggest they do.

edit: chapter -> legion

This is a little of topic but I can't help but mention it. Most of the information points to the GK being made of the Emperors gene seed. The time that they were formed is a while after the heresy.

It also hints so in the DH codex, I just doubt that would add a coment like that if it wasn't at least partly true, I know they do similar stuff but this one has been presented more like a fact. In the fluff in the DH codex deamons treat GK's psychic power as almost scary whereas they think of most psychers as food. When most psychers try to use their powers on deamons they usualy get chewed up while GK seem to manage.

As for custodes they don't use any gene seed, they aren't SM. They were created before the SM with a very different type of genetic engineering, this is why they are so powerful. I have read this on many site but the only one I can remeber is lexicanum.

Maybe the GK's rep precedes them? From the first it was emphasized that no GKs have ever succumbed to a daemonic possession.

It would be an interesting change from the Senseis' housing some of the Emperor's psychic powers to the GK's but I am skeptical of that.

Not sure how anybody would be able to replicate the Emperor's genetics into the GKs, especially give that the Emperor probably has no gene seed and the failure of the Mechanicus in trying to manipulate geneseed like in the Cursed Founding.

And what's the deal with airline food?

The GK's are certainly the spiritual successors of the Custodes. They fight using the same kinds of weapons and armor, and - like the Custodes - are supposed to be of a tier even slightly higher than your 'normal' Astartes. The Custodes final battles were even against the daemonic incursions of the Imperial webway.

I say all that to lend circumstantial evidence to the thought I have seen expressed in some places that the Knights were created from the genetic material of Constantin Valdor after the Custodes gave up fighting - thus making him a kind of primarch to the Knights.