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Hey all, picking your brains for how to fine tune my High Elves list.

The bulk of the list is comprised of:

HEROES
Noble - 149
Dragon Armor, Barded Steed, Shield, Helm of Fortune, Sword of Might

Noble - 218
DP kit, BSB - Battle Banner (I've become a BIG fan of this banner).

Mage - 140
2x Scrolls

CORE
10x Archers - 110

21x Spears - 214
Full Command


SPECIAL
5x Dragon Princes - 200
Full Command (Thinking of putting the BSB in here)

5x Dragon Princes - 150

15x Phoenix Guard - 255
Full Command

2x Tiranoc Chariots - 170

RARE
2x Bolt Throwers - 200
Great Eagle - 50


Which leaves me with 144 points to spare to play around with. For the most part, I'm set on these choices, though I was considering dropping the standard on the one unit of Dragon Princes (keep the muso and champion).

Another eagle and a unit of Reavers perhaps? Another eagle and a unit of archers?

Thanks in advance,
Jin

Maybe I should try to fit in more magic defense instead? Hrm.

You could drop the musician from the one DP squad, and add another 5 man unit if you have the models.

How about a unit champion on a unit of dragon princes with the +1 to go first, that way with luck you are +2?

Could drop the unit of spear elves to another unit of 10 archers, then you have points for another lv mage, make them lv 2's for a wee bit of magic offense.

Might even have points left over for another eagle...

@njpc - I'm rather set on the block of spears. I'm of the belief that most people under-estimate how decent a solid block of spears are and having that over the standard two units of archers throws some people off.

I was actually considering the skeinsliver. If I drop the muso and SB on the one unit of DP's, I could pick up the Skeinsliver and have enough points to get a lvl2 with Silver Wand. Hrm...

@djones - interesting idea, though I don't have the models for it... (wishfully hoping for DP plastic resculpts).

Magic Items should always come second, and things like commands and units should come first. I think you should drop thew archers, because who are we kidding, that 10 man unit might do nothing at all the entire game, and that would be on a good day. With the dragon princes tromping around the archers are going to have little to get a bead on, and even then, they aren't going to be hurting much of the enemy at all being only 10. Now with the points from the archers you can take another mage, or split up some of the spear block to then have two spear blocks of a slightly smaller size. That's all for now.

Bastirous- what do you suggest in place of the archers? He needs only two core units to hit minimum, but that's one of them.

RZ

Red_Zeke wrote:Bastirous- what do you suggest in place of the archers? He needs only two core units to hit minimum, but that's one of them.

RZ

I said use another unit of spearmen instead. Did you even read my post?

No need to get fussy. I obviously missed at least the last half of the last line. I apologize.

Regarding your suggestion- do you really think small spear blocks are a good idea?

RZ

Edit: Not trying to be hostile. I do honestly apologize for missing that part of your post. However, I think the archers should stay. They'll be back with the bolt throwers and can help shoot up flyers and fast cav that want to slide around behind the rest of the fast movers.

I used to run 2 spears blocks at 2k - but ultimately preferred having the cheaper unit of archers to do minor row-thinning on enemy units. I'm not convinced enough that Spears do well enough in blocks smaller than 18, and even then, I feel that's too many points invested in spears. I like them a lot, but I can't personally justify getting two blocks of them at this points level.

I would buy the war banner for one of the units. Either the pheonix guard or the dragon princes that you intend to put the bsb in. Against the tough tourney armies out there increasing the combat res is key so a +1 gernerally mean another dead zombie, deamon etc.

I would also consider the skiensliver. +1 to go first is important. Its a round of shooting with your bolt throwers and archers. You have plenty of places to put it.

If you are only going for magical defense I would consider the sigil of asuryan, for 40 points you have a 50% cxhance of destroying a spell. Imagine that +2 to raise ghoul vampire no longer being able to raise ghouls! Sure it only works half the time but what fun on that half. I would add at least a disell scroll or two though.

You could consider giving yourself some offensive magic capabilities. with 144 points you can upgrade both mages to lvl 2 (70), buy one the seerstaff (pick spells) and jewel of dusk (+1 power) (45 pts), buy the pheonix guard the banner of sorcery (50 pts), buy the last mage the silver wand +1 spell 10 points. This now gives you 8-10 power dice per turn on two mages, one of which can pick his spells. It does not make these guys a game breaker unit by any means but you will get off a spell every round or two against most magical defenses and high magics ability to cast drain is awesome, lore of beasts have some great spells in the current meta as well.


If that is not your thing, drop one of the mages and add the magic item that allows you to steal one of his power dice every turn. This accomplishes the same thing you have accomplished here but sheaper gaining you even more points to play with.

You could also consider adding in the lion banner to the spears. main ghtme immune to fear and terror would help a block like that giving your two biggest units immunit to fear and some defense against terror.


I don;t know if you have the models but I would consider upgrading the tyrinoc chariots to lion chariots. I know they are much more expensive but I like them better. Or you could buy another tyranoc chariot?

Another great eagle or bolt thrower is never a bad choice.

Um....I only have one mage currently.

Here's a quick edited version I cooked up.

HEROES
Noble - 149
Dragon Armor, Barded Steed, Shield, Helm of Fortune, Sword of Might

Noble - 218
DP kit, BSB - Battle Banner (I've become a BIG fan of this banner).

Noble - 139
Heavy Armor, Shield, Great Weapon, Reaver Bow.

Mage - 140
2x Scrolls

CORE
10x Archers - 110

21x Spears - 214
Full Command

SPECIAL
5x Dragon Princes - 180
Drakemaster, Musician (General goes here)

5x Dragon Princes - 150

15x Phoenix Guard - 255
Full Command, Skeinsliver

2x Tiranoc Chariots - 170

RARE
2x Bolt Throwers - 200
Great Eagle - 50

TOTAL - 2000 exact

So at the loss of a standard (not too bad of a loss, imo), I gain very reliable shooting as well as some additional choppiness in an infantry block. Chances are, he'll go with the PG to benefit from their Ward Save, but in a pinch, could help add some punch to the Spears. Additionally, I get +1 to go first with only 10 placements - which should grant me +2 to go first against a lot of armies.

I should note that I'm not really into the tourney scene - for whatever that affects input. Also, considering that my main opponents are Dwarfs and Magic-Heavy DE, I wanna shy away from going magic heavy as it would require too many points to put up a reasonable offense.

Looks like a nicely rounded list. You don't necessarily have to go nuts if you want to go magic "heavy". Banner of sorcery for the 'guard, 2xlvl 2 mages with assorted stuff and ring of fury would give you decent magic phase, altough it would require some tweaks.

@Chaoslord - point, but I feel those tweaks would take away too much from the combat elements in the list. BoS + a lvl2 mage with RoF is 220 points right there - Not sure what I could drop in addition to the on foot noble that wouldn't really weaken things for me (asides turning those spears into archers, which I'm not keen on doing).

The Battle Banner is amazing. Really Really good.

Why no lord choice? Too much of a points sink?

While I like the Chariots a lot I feel like they'd be scarier as another unit of DPs.

I feel like you have very little magic defense in the list, which is worrysome. I'd consider dropping the Reaver Bow noble in favor of another Mage. As it stands youre making 3 DD with 2 Scrolls. You're also rather unlikely to actually cast Drain Magic with that solitary mage as the armies you want to hurt with it will be packing a bunch of DD due to their nature.

Having finally gotten a chance to play with this list, I must say that I like it quite a bit.

The Reaver noble adds just the right amount of "oomph" in both CC and Shooting Phases to make the PG just that much more dangerous.

Also, having the tag team of 2 chariots rocks - I'll likely try to make it a habit of putting these guys in future lists.

@Caffran -

Yeah, Lords just ate up too many points without providing enough support to the list, and I wasn't keen on running a Star Dragon Prince. I wanted to focus on CC and movement, so the Archmage was out as well.

I gotta say, the chariots give me a bit more flexibility and durability (that T4 helps lots) that I don't think I'd get from another unit of DPs. These guys are consistently being rock-stars in my games.

As you point out, my magic defense is really low - it does force me to rely on Dispel priority and choose which spells to deal with. But again, my main opponents are Dwarfs, TK and Magic-heavy-ish DE, so if I really wanted to contend, I'd have to invest a lot more points into magic. As it is, this list does have quite a bit of speed that to a certain extent helps mitigate this weakness. The lone mage isn't really ever likely to succeed in casting much (honestly, I just try for Shield of Saphery with 2, and if I can, Drain Magic with the last PD), but he's predominantly there to just provide some magic defense for 1-2 turns before I get into CC. That being said, I'm still considering running a second scroll caddy (potentially with silver wand), though the Reaver Noble is quickly proving himself quite useful.

I have run the reaver noble in quite a few games, and despite his hit rolls being odd (no matter the modifiers he always hits twice, every round, every games, -4 to hit gets to hits, 2s to hit only 2 hits its strange) but anyways he is extremely useful in my opinion and is incredibly useful to knock off that extra guy to cause panic. Also as you say in hth he can add a nice bite to your PG, actually i run practically the same setup in my PG when i run them.

Now i have a interesting question for you, i have not tried this yet, but i think it would make for an interesting substitution for your general/scroll caddy, get rid of both and replace them with a Prince, Radiant Gem, 2x Scrolls, Barded Steed, Sword of Might and Shield. Comes out to be 3 points less so essentially same price, gives you ld 10 general and tough caddy at the cost of your 1+ re-rollable armor save. Not really sure if its worth it, but i think, as most things, depends on the army, ld 10 for fear against TK probably would be nice, against DE probably not as useful as you re-roll psychology tests already, against dwarves it only helps against panic. Of course Ld 10 is always useful for break tests

As for magic defense, i am currently trying to move from magic heavy to magic light, but i feel it really depends on your play group, the one here is usually lvl 2, lvl4 and a bound maybe at most, so a scroll caddy can work out, on the other hand people here also have their "cheese" armies that are 15 PD, or 8 + 4 bound items etc. and you need 2 caddies to make it through turn 2 alive. Another idea for a caddy (and better than my prince idea, sorry i just had to throw that one out there lol) is possibly an archmage, give 2 scrolls and anullian crystal, or just 4 scrolls and then lvl 4, it gives you some magic offense and costs about the same as 2 lvl 2s with similar equipment. I think the archmage is more useful mainly because ld 9 (not that you need that in this list), you get more spells so better chance of a good one, and you can throw more dice at a single spell to get it through once they run out of scrolls.

The Prince-Mage is an interesting idea, though I think it's "safer" to keep the two entities separate and keep the 1+ rerollable.

The Caddy Archmage is an interesting idea, with a lvl3 with 2 scrolls and the Annulian Crystal costing 305 points. (or a lvl3 with 3 scrolls for 285). Would have to drop the Reaver Noble though. Hrm. I'm curious enough to give it a try.