Kharn the Betrayer and the World Eaters

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**Deathbot**

I am new to 40k so forgive me if I am asking an obvious question. How did Kharn the Betrayer destroy the World Eater's capacity to act as a unified fighting force? As I understand it, when the World Eaters were attacking an enemy force of Emperor's Children, a blizzard so terrible even the genetically-enhanced and daemonically-powered Super Soldiers couldn't take it descended and forced both sides to retreat into shelter. In a fit of rage, Kharn burned the World Eaters' shelters to the ground and proceeded to run around in a psychotic frenzy, slaughtering anyone that came within chainsaw-axe range. The World Eaters suffered such horrendous casualties (mostly self-inflicted) that they were never again able to take the field as a unified fighting force, and are now reduced to fighting alongside other Chaos warbands as shock troops. But how did those casualties (massive as they were) destroy the unity of the World Eaters?

**1hadhq**

Cause to turn on your own men proved them their "brothers" wont be trustworthy anymore.
When everyone waits for a chance to take your skull, how can you fight alongside ?

**Shadowbrand**

That and considering this was Post-Heresy we have already taken a considerable amount of casualties.

Kharn's Betrayal was just what broke the camel's back.

**Deathbot**

Shadowbrand wrote:That and considering this was Post-Heresy we have already taken a considerable amount of casualties.

Kharn's Betrayal was just what broke the camel's back.

That still doesn't answer my question. What about those kills made them decide to split up? Did Kharn kill all the officers or something? After you have just taken heavy casualties, dividing your forces is the worst possible thing to do.

**Shadowbrand**

Well I'd imagine they would separate to keep away from Kharn. I know most of them are with the Black Legion.

**Deathbot**

Shadowbrand wrote:Well I'd imagine they would separate to keep away from Kharn. I know most of them are with the Black Legion.

They wouldn't have to split up to keep away from Kharn. Just land on a deserted ice planet far away from anywhere, tell him there are enemies a few miles away, and watch him run into the distance screaming "Blood for the Blood God!". Then quietly sneak back onto the ship and take off without him.

**Gitzbitah**

Kharne is a great guy. His love of kittens is legendary, as is his amazing sense of humor and affinity for commisarial hat wear. Dividing would lead to the largest possible casualty rate, both on their side and the opponents. Any death is another skull for the blood god, so this made sense to the followers of Khorne.

Kharne isn't to blame for the fragmentation of the legion- Khorne is.

**Shadowbrand**

Hehehe, that would actually work too.

Well looking on Lexi I could'nt find anything solid.

They leave gaps in the plot for people to mess with.

Like my EC's Lord Commander is the new cloning expert now that Bile is gone doing his own thing.

**whitedragon**

Probably as world eaters groups (already slavering psycho's with enhanced brutality mods) rushed to defend each other, or follow Kharn's example, the chain of command broke down and all World Eaters decided for a more free-for-all approach to skull taking.

They were fighting the Emperor's Children, Kharn, and probably some of each other. Most of them said "F*** this noise, we're striking out on our own." And that was that.

**1hadhq**

Look at it this way:
Kharn was the first real berserker. The fight raged on and the legion gone berserk.
Those mad killers wont obey commands and when the carnage was done, there were no option to return to "normal" operational status.
It should be remembered that the WE used brain surgery to rise the aggression level.
If you read about kharn in his pre heresy appearance in the HH series, he seemed to be a reasonable warrior and not a crazed lunatic.
Something changed him.....

**Deathbot**

1hadhq wrote:Look at it this way:
Kharn was the first real berserker. The fight raged on and the legion gone berserk.
Those mad killers wont obey commands and when the carnage was done, there were no option to return to "normal" operational status.
It should be remembered that the WE used brain surgery to rise the aggression level.
If you read about kharn in his pre heresy appearance in the HH series, he seemed to be a reasonable warrior and not a crazed lunatic.
Something changed him.....

Apparently he was actually killed during the Horus Heresy. His fellow World Eaters carried his corpse away with them as they fought their way back to their ships. Then he was somehow revived and has been completely psycho ever since. It is suspected that Khorne himself revived Kharn.

Shadowbrand wrote:Hehehe, that would actually work too.

Of course it would. Khorne and his followers are renown for being insane and berserk. Not smart.

**penut the butter**

Deathbot wrote:I am new to 40k so forgive me if I am asking an obvious question. How did Kharn the Betrayer destroy the World Eater's capacity to act as a unified fighting force? As I understand it, when the World Eaters were attacking an enemy force of Emperor's Children, a blizzard so terrible even the genetically-enhanced and daemonically-powered Super Soldiers couldn't take it descended and forced both sides to retreat into shelter. In a fit of rage, Kharn burned the World Eaters' shelters to the ground and proceeded to run around in a psychotic frenzy, slaughtering anyone that came within chainsaw-axe range. The World Eaters suffered such horrendous casualties (mostly self-inflicted) that they were never again able to take the field as a unified fighting force, and are now reduced to fighting alongside other Chaos warbands as shock troops. But how did those casualties (massive as they were) destroy the unity of the World Eaters?

The destruction of the casulties were so horrible that the world eaters just started killing to survive.

**person person**

There is no such thing as rank thanks to Kharn only leaders and followers. Who's who is decided by which path has the most killing.

**Orkeosaurus**

I'm guessing without Kharn the legion of what was already in a large part berserkers just collapsed.

Not as a result of Kharn's specific actions so much as Kharn having barely held together an extremely factious group prior.

**Nurglitch**

Makes you wonder where Angron was during the Skalathrax Campaign.

**Orkeosaurus**

Yeah, really.

None of the Daemon Primarchs ever do anything.

**penut the butter**

Except Fulgrim. He's Slaanesh's hump buddy.

**Cheese Elemental**

Actually, Angron ventures out of the Eye of Terror every now and then to collect some skulls. I think the others stay put though.

**Shadowbrand**

Seldomly...... Lazy bastards.

**Tyr**

Its sad. In the older fluff, and in some stories, Khorne is talked about as the god of not only bloodlust and battle, but also martial prowess and honor. Its the newer fluff that basically changed anyone who worships Khorne into a raving idiot swinging a chainaxe. Don't get me wrong, Kharn has always been portrayed like that, but now every World Eater is portrayed as a mini-Kharn.

As for why the legion split, it makes no sense. Kharn burns some tents, kills some marines (maybe some of the leaders)... anyone would've just said "Ok, everyone back up from Kharn, he's lost it" and proceeded to blow him away with plasma, bolter and if need be, melta fire. Even if Kharn did all that and got away with it, the rest of the legion isn't going to up and say "Wow! Kharn's right, where're being a bunch of weenies. Lets all go nuts like him!".

Like so much of GW's fluff, it adds to the GrimDark, but makes no sense whatsoever. This one has always bothered me though.

-Tyr

**Lord-Loss**

Well each of the original legions were atleast 40,000 marines each. The WE took the most casaulties cause there berzerkers.

Dont forgot they will get new recruits from traitor chapters.

So the legions numbers by then could be anything from 30,000 to 10,000. Kharn couldnt have killed more then 100 marines that day.

**1hadhq**

Only 100 ?
I am disappointed....

IIRC kharn has a killcounter, couldnt remember where it stood yesterday.

Someone should go and find out.....

**Lord-Loss**

Well how many 6ft tall manics can one manic kill before it becames dark and he freezes to death?

**person person**

6 ft. sounds short. I think Kharn killed at least 100 by hand, when you light things on fire other things tend to burn.

**Lord-Loss**

Yes but the point is there was probaly alot of tension between the officers of the legion.

While Kharn and the Berzerkers were shouting "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD" the other World eaters were trying to come up with plans.

Tension would build up and Kharns massacre was probaly the last straw.

**Nurglitch**

I think that people are forgetting that Kharn was the 1st Captain of the World Eaters, the guy that talked sense into Angron when the Primarch was having one of his mood-swings. Kharn was probably the last officer in the Legion trying to hold things together from an operational perspective: when he loses it, the Legion loses it.

**Lord-Loss**

He's pretty loopy at the end of Galaxy in flames, add in a mega defeat and being pushed back to the eye of terror then skip like a few thousand years.

Thens thats A very angry Kharn.

**penut the butter**

There all loopy!

**Nurglitch**

To be fair the 16th company is just eccentric.

**Ordznik**

I always got the impression that what broke the WE at Skalathrax wasn't so much Kharn's killing as the burning. The ensuing fight over what shelter remained pitted WE against WE, and basically broke them up into warbands that no longer trusted each other.