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okay, inspired by FB, i believe it's possible to run the green tide in 40k as well, although it may not be competitive
i aim for numbers, and therefore refuse battlewagons/trukks and dat kinda stuff

HQ
(((((((((((((((((((((((
Ghaz
{225pts}

Big Mek - KFF, PK, bosspole, attack squig, 'eavy armour, cybork
{145pts}

note: need ghaz to advance as quickly as possible, need mek's KFF to acquire some cover save for troops (he is boosted to act as an AT guy when i get to cc)

Troops
(((((((((((((((((((((((
Gretchin (#30) - 3 Runthers, 2 Grot-prods
{130pts}

Gretchin (#30) - 3 Runthers, 1 Grot-prod
{125pts}

Gretchin (#30) - 3 Runthers, 1 Grot-prod
{125pts}

Gretchin (#30) - 3 Runthers, 1 Grot-prod
{125pts}

Ork Boyz (#30) - Nob, PK, bosspole, 'eavy armour
{225pts}

Ork Boyz (#30) - Nob, PK, bosspole, 'eavy armour
{225pts}

Ork Boyz (#30) - Nob, PK, bosspole, 'eavy armour
{225pts}

Ork Boyz (#30) - Nob, PK, bosspole, 'eavy armour
{225pts}

Ork Boyz (#30) - Nob, PK, bosspole, 'eavy armour
{225pts}

Total points: 2 000
Total models: 284

i haven't decided whether to give boyz sluggas&choppas, or shootas...

c&c welcome, remember it's for fun! any math hammerers warmly welcome!!!

Well, if you're not playing with FOC restrictions, this isn't terrible. If you're playing Apocalypse or something where there isn't a limit on the number of troops choices you can take, I say go for it.

I say drop some grot prods and use those points to put some big shootas into a shoota boy squad. Much more useful. Go for a 50/50 split of sluggas vs. shootas if possible.

All else I can say is that this would be hell to paint

yeah, and hard to store anyways

as this is 4fun, i do not expect my opponent to object against more troops than 6 in standard FOC(esp. in this case, where the TROOPS are wretched gretchins )

i will consider the big shootas, however, the grot-prods are kinda protection against MCs and ICs... which my gretchins cannot really hurt

if i were you i wouldn't waste my time with shoota boys. Many people are going to disagree with me but sluggas are much more effective in CC and orks are useless to shoot with anyways. The only thing i would do differently is take a squad of Mega Armored Nobs with Ghaz...this way you can allocate a TON of wounds to that whole group which ensures you that ghaz will make it to the front lines. I run a foot slogging list and throwing ghaz with the MANZ in a truck is simply amazing.

*i only run 1 vehicle in my list and if your running ghaz its pretty important IMO

hippohroch wrote:yeah, and hard to store anyways

as this is 4fun, i do not expect my opponent to object against more troops than 6 in standard FOC(esp. in this case, where the TROOPS are wretched gretchins )

i will consider the big shootas, however, the grot-prods are kinda protection against MCs and ICs... which my gretchins cannot really hurt

Actually, I would have MAJOR objections to facing this list in 5th, and I would refuse to play against it.

Why?

Because in 5th, 2/3 of the games are about objectives that ONLY troops can control. This list breaks the FoC and fields NINE large scoring units...5 of which are fearless. 270 SCORING models...you have to be kidding me, right?

The FoC exists for a reason...game balance. This list is completely illegal.

If you want to play Apoc with it, fine....but as a normal 40k list I have to say...NO WAY! Start over...this is complete fail.

lol alerian, i do not need people comin' to my thread and saying: "your list is illegal, you bad guy, i won't play against you"

i know my opponent will not object, and we usually play annihilation

i love this kind of people, who try to proof that you are a complete looser... save your time sir for someone else!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@ Bad_Sheep37 - i do not need ghaz to make it into cc, i need him to call his Waaaagh!, so my orks can run and murder everything in their way

i agree with the s%c theorem, however, orks shoot a hell of shots, and even with their low BS, they still manage to get like 10 shots per squad, which is 50 added for all orks... that hurts, huh? but i decided to play them slugga&choppa, as the assault impact is much greater, and that's what i am looking for

@Alerian. Yeah man not cool. Hipp explained that its for friendly games with people that wont mind ditching the FOC. Give advice on the list thats presented and not bash people for just wanting to show people their list that their playing for friendly games.

@Hip. Good choice on the sluggas and choppas. yeah the extra waaaaghhhh is amazing but Ghaz is a BEAST in CC. on the charge hes getting 7 PK attacks...just think about that =)

1. The OP posted an illegal list.
2. He asked for comments.
3. He never stated that his opponent and he had already decided to ditch the FoC.
4. He said "i do not expect my opponent to object against more troops than 6 in standard FOC". It is this statement that I was directly countering, and pointing out why such reasoning was faulty. There are good reasons to expect your opponent to object to more than 6 troops choices.

5. I never said, implied, or tried to prove that the OP was a loser (as he is claiming).

Had the OP stated that this list was only meant for games where he and his opponent had both agreed to ignore the FoC, this would be an entirely different matter, and I would not have posted what I did.

I posted in response to an illegal list and gave the C&C for which the OP asked. If you are attacking me for doing so, I think you need to re-examine the facts.

this is how shoota boyz where explained to me/

And yes, shoota boyz are really nice. Sure they've got a bs of 2, but they've each got the firepower of a space marine firing at long range, and can fire on the move. A space marine gets 2/3 of a strength 4 hit with one shot from his bolter on average (BS 4 = 2/3 chance to hit times 1 for one shot) and a shoota boy likewise gets .66 of a strength 4 hit from his shoota (BS 2 = 1/3 chance to hit times 2 for two shots.)
The difference here being that space marines cost 16 points each compared to 6 points each for an Ork means that Orks get 2.7 Boyz for every marine, and correspondingly 2.7 times the firepower. And 2 attacks each base compared to 3 attacks each base means that you're still getting 2/3 of the attacks that slugga boyz have and 3/4 of their attacks on the charge, which is a minor loss for the benefit you're getting. A shoota mob still wipes out most units in close combat pretty handily.
Shootas are also effective out to 18" (12" to really get the whole mob shooting at the same thing) whereas assaulting is only effective out to 6". This means that the shoota mob is effective more quickly than a slugga mob, and doesn't have as much of a need for repositioning after their first target is dealt with.
There are also units out there that you don't really want to assault without softening up with shooting. Units like genestealers, khorne berserkers, black templars, and other dedicated assault units you definitely want to deal with or weaken from range before assault. Genestealers in particular since their armor saves tend to be weak, leaving them quite vulnerable to shooting.

Ill agree with Alerian here, i think most people would object to this list.
Why? 9 scoring units is somewhat over the top, 6 is bad enough when facing orks, not only does 9 break rules, but its just a waste of everyones time.
Movement will take ages with this army as you scoot units about 1 by 1.
The footprint this army covers would usually be over half a table (depending on size)

in which case, i would field this army against it:

15 lootas - 225
15 lootas - 225
15 lootas - 225
15 lootas - 225
15 lootas - 225
15 lootas - 225
15 lootas - 225
15 lootas - 225
13 lootas - 195

2,000 points dead on

OK, like yours it breaks FOC, but it has a real kick



On a big note here, maybe getting the players OK before hand may be a good idea, otherwise you could be sat there all day watching battles while people refuse to play you.

@alerian - sorry for my harsh reply... i realized that i did not inform the people beforehand... my fault, sorry again!

@JD21290 - no comment... jeez, can't you see the difference btw gretchins and lootas?

hippohroch wrote:okay, inspired by FB, i believe it's possible to run the green tide in 40k as well, although it may not be competitive
i aim for numbers, and therefore refuse battlewagons/trukks and dat kinda stuff

i haven't decided whether to give boyz sluggas&choppas, or shootas...!

I normally run a 1750 horde army, and have found it to be very effective. Its not an army that will when during timed games -- such as tournaments -- but can be very successful otherwise. The plan of not being able to have your opponent kill your entire army is really quite good.

It costs you very little to follow the FoC. I field 1 squad of 29 grots and 4 squads of 30 orks. That already can easily cover half the board. Throwing more models on that count becomes cumbersome so quickly you will not be able to find places to put your models. This becomes even worse on dawn of war missions. Once you get to about ~150 models on your side of the board, you need to consider using kommandos or koptas and other tools to deploy closer to him.

That being said, here are my suggestions
1) Drop the Big Mek. With even 1 squad of grots, finding that 4+ cover save is very easy. Just keep half your boys on cover, leave the other half out in the open, and you can find cover nearly everywhere. That Big Mek is just a waste of points.

2) Do you really need Ghaz? Your paying a lot of points for an extra 2.5" move (on average) on the turn your Waaaaagh. You could buy 2 warbosses for the cost of Ghaz.

3) Drop down to 1 squad of grots. You just don't need that many grotz. Field 29 grots and 2 runtherdz.

4) Drop the 'eavy armor from your Nob bosses. You won't need it. I don't give them bosspoles. If the squad has lost enough people to where they are rerolling saves, something has gone wrong. It happens so rarely, that Ive not found the bosspoles worth it.

5) Most people disagree with me on this, but I find that 3 big shootas in a slugga squad to be worth it. I keep them near the back of my squad, and fire them on the round I assault terminator or other heavy forces. Those extra 9 dice have helped me and is worth the 15 points. If your going with shoota squads, then definitely go with the big shootas!

6) Field snikrot and his squad of kommandos. Your army will never be the same again. Really, its just that good of a squad.

7) You need some other AT. Deffkoptas can fill this role well, and they are cheap in real world money to buy off friends.

8) Another option would be lootas. One squad of them can deliver some good firepower to kill DP, 'fexes and other high toughness targets. The only flaw with using them is that they can become targets very quickly. Its easy to laugh when you pull off 6 point models, not so much with 15 point models. They can also be fairly pricy in in real world $$$ to buy.

a quotation from ork kodex:

"Furthermore, for the duration of the Waaagh! all Ork infantry units automatically count as rolling a 6 for the Waaagh! movement they wish to make."

That is the reason I take him.

However, i can adjust the list to fit FoC with simple steps... lets see! (i do not like kommandos though )

HQ
- Ghaz {225pts}
- Big Mek - KFF, PK, bosspole, attack squig, 'eavy armour, cybork {145pts}

Troops
- Ork Boyz (#30) - Nob, PK, bosspole, 'eavy armour {225pts}
- Ork Boyz (#30) - Nob, PK, bosspole, 'eavy armour {225pts}
- Ork Boyz (#30) - Nob, PK, bosspole, 'eavy armour {225pts}
- Ork Boyz (#30) - Nob, PK, bosspole, 'eavy armour {225pts}
- Ork Boyz (#30) - Nob, PK, bosspole, 'eavy armour {225pts}
- Ork Boyz (#30) - Nob, PK, bosspole, 'eavy armour {225pts}

Fast Attack
- Storm Boyz (#20) - Nob, PK, bosspole

Total points: 2.000
Total models: 202

changes made:
= the list fits FoC now
= reduced models by 82, to ease the deployment and manoeuvring
= added fast attack, either to be used as late-game support, or to lock shooters in cc until boyz come
= infantry (troops) changed to all-ork, so they all benefit from Waaagh!

do you like it now? i do, better than first one

again, c&c welcome, i promise not to get angry

Now you have a list going the right way
much better

Suggestions:

Drop the eavy armour from the nobz - 30 points saved.
Drop eavy and squig from the mek - 20 points saved.
Cut 2 units of boyz down to 12 men :O
give them each a trukk with red paint.

spend all saved points on another unit of storm boyz.


why?

this will act as a wave list.
Trukks hit 1st allowing you to hold up units and stop them from dropping rounds onto the boyz.
The 2 units of stormboyz get to hit next, giving a nice big punch where needed. (maybe even adding zag to the unit)
finally the boyz arrive thanks to ghaz, giving a 3rd wave to punch through all defences.

By doing it this way you have 2 highly mobile trukk units to get anywhere they need. (mainly objectives)
2 very mobile units to fly about to where needed (and hold up units)
then you have 4 large boyz mobs to tie up lose ends and do serious damage.

I like this list much better.

However, I agree that Kommandos are better bang for your buck than Stormboys. Snikrot really is too good not to take with his Ambush ability. By merely fielding him you squeeze your opponent towards the middle and closer to your boys, as they try to distance themselves from the edge. Either that, or they leave themselves open for the SNikrot Ambush...good for you, no matter what

Alerian, there is a problem with snik though mate

against other horde armies he will have little impact, killing an entire guard unit means nothing to them, you then have an expensive unit sat infront of a gunline praying to mork (or possibly gork)

Stormboyz tend to have enough movement that they can effectively work as shock troops.

Also, against weathered combat units (marines for example) the usual attacks from snik and his boyz wont do a great deal of damage, and having no armour means they really will get hurt when the marines hit back.

JD21290 wrote:Alerian, there is a problem with snik though mate

against other horde armies he will have little impact, killing an entire guard unit means nothing to them, you then have an expensive unit sat infront of a gunline praying to mork (or possibly gork)

Stormboyz tend to have enough movement that they can effectively work as shock troops.

Also, against weathered combat units (marines for example) the usual attacks from snik and his boyz wont do a great deal of damage, and having no armour means they really will get hurt when the marines hit back.

HUH????

From your post, you obviously do not know how to use Snikrot...no offense intended.

First, against hordes, the 2 burnas in his squad will most certainly do quite a bit of dmg, followed by a nasty assault.
Second, against Guard, Snik should be used to assault tanks. S6 with rerolls to hit will carve up just about any IG tank. If you want to hit guards men, well you have burnas.
Third, against SMs....Snikrot owns. 2 Burnas plus Sniks attacks will decimate the scoring units or devestators that he is going after. Remember, you are ambushing, so he is not going after HQs.

All in all, you use Snik to Ambush and destroy support units (usually the shootiest thing your opponent has), in order for your boys to get through to their goal. yes, he is a sacrificial unit. That is the point. You opponent knows that you will sacrifice him to kill whatever is the biggest threat to your army, which forces him into making tough decisions.

Your opponent knows that anything he leaves within 18" of any board edge (because the OP is using Ghaz) is Snikrot bait. This forces his hand in both deployment and movement, forcing the units that he wants to live towards the center....either that, or Snikrot get his choice of juicy targets...either way is great for the Ork player.

I agree with Alerian.

Snikrot is a huge advantage for the ork player. The thought of having 15 orks pop out behind a IG player will have them move their basalisks and other tanks 12" closer to your mobs. This is a huge advantage, as it lowers the amount of distance your PKs will need to cross to get to his tanks.

I'm not joking when I say it changes your game. Its a huge advantage and has never failed to prove their worth -- even if they don't "get their points back". This includes contesting objectives, tying up oblits while my army closes, etc.

hippohroch wrote:okay, inspired by FB, i believe it's possible to run the green tide in 40k as well, although it may not be competitive
i aim for numbers, and therefore refuse battlewagons/trukks and dat kinda stuff

HQ
(((((((((((((((((((((((
Ghaz
{225pts}

Big Mek - KFF, PK, bosspole, attack squig, 'eavy armour, cybork
{145pts}

note: need ghaz to advance as quickly as possible, need mek's KFF to acquire some cover save for troops (he is boosted to act as an AT guy when i get to cc)


Troops
(((((((((((((((((((((((
Gretchin (#30) - 3 Runthers, 2 Grot-prods
{130pts}

Gretchin (#30) - 3 Runthers, 1 Grot-prod
{125pts}

Gretchin (#30) - 3 Runthers, 1 Grot-prod
{125pts}

Gretchin (#30) - 3 Runthers, 1 Grot-prod
{125pts}

Ork Boyz (#30) - Nob, PK, bosspole, 'eavy armour
{225pts}

Ork Boyz (#30) - Nob, PK, bosspole, 'eavy armour
{225pts}

Ork Boyz (#30) - Nob, PK, bosspole, 'eavy armour
{225pts}

Ork Boyz (#30) - Nob, PK, bosspole, 'eavy armour
{225pts}

Ork Boyz (#30) - Nob, PK, bosspole, 'eavy armour
{225pts}

Total points: 2 000
Total models: 284

i haven't decided whether to give boyz sluggas&choppas, or shootas...

c&c welcome, remember it's for fun! any math hammerers warmly welcome!!!

yep...no mention of a non FOC game, game against a friend in a base ment or anything else. Done get all pissy and start acusing people of calling you a loser when they didnt. My suggestion would be to put relevant info in the list, like " we dont play with FOC" or something similar. If not, dont whine when you get the WTF?! comments.

All that aside, I go with choppas over sluggas normally too. Shootas x26= 52 shots= 13 hits= 6 wounds + 9 big shootas=3 hits and 2 wounds for 9 total wounds. As opposed to say 30 boys getting an extra d6 movement and 30 attacks where 15 hit and 7 wound. So all in all its the same roughly, shootas are good for harassing opponents and holding objectives, sluggas attack and run every turn.
Troops

A good trick for this many boys, run the green tide with 1 nob for every 10 boys, run mad dok and make them all ard boys with cybork bodies. With 200 boys you can run rough shod. Clip charging gives everyone an extra 6" move and if you get charged you get an extra 6" so the whole mob covers incredible distances. The real threat are the nobs/warbosses the boys are just wounds. 20 nobs will eat a warhound titan in one phase and go looking for more.

Kans up front with a KFF behind gives your army a 4+ as opposed to a 5+ Gazzy is worthless unless you just want to run him for S's and Giggles