Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I have been told that an IC attached to a unit that is charging into combat must a. move into base to base with the unit being charged, even if that means moving troops in front out of the way b. He cannot attack if he is not in b2b, even if he is within 2". I would normally dismiss this but the person that is saying it is pretty spot in other posts I have read.

As far as the first issue goes, I never let him get in b2b anyway, I keep a buffer and make sure on my last movement before assault that he is 7 to 7.998 inches from the front line. I then moved him up with a healthy layer of meat between him and the combat and swung away.

I am not sure about either rule, however, when he is attached to a unit.

Assuming he is attached to a unit:
A. Does he have to move through his troops to get in b2b if possible?
B. Does he not get to swing if he is not in b2b?

Inigo Montoya wrote:A. Does he have to move through his troops to get in b2b if possible?

No. What happens is if the IC's unit is CHARGED, he must be the first model to make the "Defenders React" move. When Charging it does nothing.

B. Does he not get to swing if he is not in b2b?

This is correct, he must be in BTB, because he counts as a seperate unit, so can never be within 2" of a member of the same unit in BTB (unless he has a retinue)

B is correct. A is not. He moves first, but does not move through friendly models.

ajfirecracker wrote:He moves first, but does not move through friendly models.

No, he doesn't. The model closest to the target unit moves first. Page 49, Bottom left Paragraph.

So he does not run into b2b, but even though he is attatched to the squad, he cannot swing if he is not in b2b with the enemy?

Inigo Montoya wrote:So he does not run into b2b, but even though he is attatched to the squad, he cannot swing if he is not in b2b with the enemy?

He does not HAVE to run into BTB first. However, because he cannot swing if he is not in BTB, it is considered prudent to move him as soon as possible to get into BTB.

P. 49, bottom left paragraph:

"When a unit is reacting to being assaulted, or making a pile-in move, independent characters that have joined the unit must move before other friendly models in order to get into base contact with an enemy if at all possible"

Inigo Montoya:

That is correct. Mind you, since the independent character has to move first in any assault that his unit engages in, and the way you describe it is that he will be far away from combat, how is his unit making their assault move? The unit can't move unless it can get into combat.

OK, so where is the rule that states that he cannot swing if he is not in b2b?

You guys are awesome.

ajfirecracker wrote:P. 49, bottom left paragraph:

"When a unit is reacting to being assaulted, or making a pile-in move, independent characters that have joined the unit must move before other friendly models in order to get into base contact with an enemy if at all possible"

Yes... your point? As you can see, it is only when " a unit is reacting to being assaulted, or making a pile-in move" that IC's have to move first. The Paragraph above deals with what happens when a unit assaults.

Independent Characters & Assaults, p.49.

Inigo Montoya wrote:OK, so where is the rule that states that he cannot swing if he is not in b2b?

You guys are awesome.

Page 35: Who can Fight? and Page 49 Characters and Assaults.

Gwar! wrote:No, he doesn't. The model closest to the target unit moves first. Page 49, Bottom left Paragraph.

I assumed you were referencing the bottom left paragraph. I also assumed you were referencing a rule showing that the closest model must move first, which that page does not show.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
P. 34, however, does substantiate your point for a squad initiating an assault.

ajfirecracker wrote:

Gwar! wrote:No, he doesn't. The model closest to the target unit moves first. Page 49, Bottom left Paragraph.

I assumed you were referencing the bottom left paragraph. I also assumed you were referencing a rule showing that the closest model must move first, which that page does not show.

Well, when you ASSume, you know what happens.

I was telling you that IC's do not have to move first when Initiating an assault, only when receiving one, as outlined on page 49.

I'm sorry. Is it much of an assumption that "Page 49, Bottom left paragraph" references p. 49, bottom left paragaph? Or that posting a rules interpretation immediately followed by a page number should lead one to believe that they're somehow linked?

Inigo, I assaume you are refferring to our discussion in the army list section.

First, let me clear up by saying that I never said that you had to move your Mek first, when assaulting. I simply pointed out that he needed to be in BtB in order to attack. The only time you have to move ICs first during an assault, is when reacting to an assault.

Second, let me point you to where I did in the other thread:

P. 49
Under "Independent Characters & Assaults."

"...it means that they (ICs) have to be in base contact with the enemy to be able to attack"


I hope that helps!

Yes, that is what I was looking for. I think it is funny that even in tournaments I have played in Chicago and Indy, they let me attack with my mek from behind the boyz. I saw no value in cluttering his thread with more of the dabate on this, so I asked here.

btw - GWAR - I have learned a lot about raw from your posts, and I think you have a very solid understanding of the rules, but you don't need to be so abrasive. "Your point?" is not constructive, and whether you intend it to be insulting and condescending or not, it is. I have noticed this in a number of your posts. I really appreciate your input and I think you are an assett to our little community here, but try to be a little less - whatever it is you are being - when people are looking for help and information and not even dabating your point.
Thanks for lining me out on this!

Inigo Montoya wrote:I think it is funny that even in tournaments I have played in Chicago and Indy, they let me attack with my mek from behind the boyz.

This is why using tourneys/stores/events/staffers/friends as a rules reference is a bad idea.
It may work, but that does not make it right.

shrug

Exactly. It makes a huge difference in the game as well. Ignoring a rule like that in cc absolutely tips the scales in the wrong direction.

I will play it properly now, and I have the reference points to show them in the rulebook. Thanks again.