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i was taught that you cannot fire into assault but i am unable to find this rule, the closest being "Certian situations prevent a unit from firing. the most common are: Units that are locked in CC with the foe" pg 15 of Rulebook...

so may i fire into an assault with my men in it? it makes sense if you are playing orks...

if not may you drop a blast into someone not in assault but scatter into the assaulting unit?

and last of all... may you fire into an assault without ur own men in there? like in a 3 way game

thanks...

Elegost

so may i fire into an assault with my men in it? it makes sense if you are playing orks...

No

if not may you drop a blast into someone not in assault but scatter into the assaulting unit?

You can shoot a unit not in assault but if it scatters into an assault, it hits as normal (even your own men).

and last of all... may you fire into an assault without ur own men in there? like in a 3 way game

3 Way games are non standard so no rules.

For the 3-way battle, you could follow the rules on page 273. But as Gwar said, this is a non-standard mission.

I have always thought, you play with the fluff... So if I am playing Orks, and da big boss says nuke our own men to get at the humies...ya nuke em

No, you play with the rules.

But then you have these other justifications:

Tau - for the greater good.
Dark Eldar - would almost prefer to fire at their own guys to the enemy!
Chaos - blood for the blood god!
Necrons - cold and calculating and regenerating FTW
Guard - cannon fodder don't matter
Space Marines - might or might not, probably depends on the mission.

Eldar - Okay, they probably wouldn't fire at their own guys (dying race and all)

So all but one race would totally shoot into their own troops. I personally disagree with the ruling that you can't fire into CC but them's the rules.

ETA: With the caveat that you might add a "Dying Race" rule to the Eldar so they are not allowed to fire into CC.

Ludovic wrote:ETA: With the caveat that you might add a "Dying Race" rule to the Eldar so they are not allowed to fire into CC.

The Eldar will shoot into their own just fine of the reward is big enough to justify the risk.

Zarynterk wrote:I have always thought, you play with the fluff... So if I am playing Orks, and da big boss says nuke our own men to get at the humies...ya nuke em

Trolling: just say no.

Sorry but Eldar are the only race that can fire into CC ... God I love my Vibro-Cannons; Draw a line 36" long you've just hit every thing it pasted through.

Your close, but there is one other unit that can fire into CC Tri.. The Vindicare Assassin with the Witch Hunters can fire into CC as the firing restrictions have been removed due to the marksman ability. But other than that I dont think there are any other armies that can shoot into CC directly (not including template "accidents"

Eldar can, s2.

So can Daemonhunters, with their Vindicare

There is at least one other case I can think of. I'll see if anyone else can figure it out as well.

G


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Teh answer is holocaust.

G

Canonness Rory wrote:Eldar can, s2.

Yeah, thats why I said there was one other unit. Its still prety sweet that only a few units can do it.

thanks but how would you figure out whose shot... like 1-3 = ur guys and 4-6 = badies...

and eldar can shoot into assault cause their AWESOME and would dodge the bullets as well as the guys in front of them

Elegost

elegost wrote:thanks but how would you figure out whose shot... like 1-3 = ur guys and 4-6 = badies...

and eldar can shoot into assault cause their AWESOME and would dodge the bullets as well as the guys in front of them

Elegost

I guess I'm missing the point of this post only because I dont understand what you are asking (other than your opinion about how badasstroturf Eldar are). If your asking how to determine what figures and how many are affected by a shot, look at it from a blast template perspective. Say that there are 10 guys in squad x and 10 guys in squad z. After placing the template, you see that the template covers 4 guys in squad x and 3 in squad z. you would roll for wounding for the number of guys in each squad (4 for squad x and 3 for squad z) and assuming that all wound, the controlling players would need to make saves for their figures.

So short answer is you count the number of figures for both sides assuming that there are more than one army's figures under the template and roll wounds seperately for all squads affected.

nah im asking this...

if a CSM squad walks up into range of a scrap between eldar and imperial gaurd - neither of them allies to the CSM player - and we've allowed the CSM to fire in. he fire 10 shots into the squad and hits with 7. how would we figure out who in the fight got hit.

Elegost.

Well, the best way is to roll a D2 for each one that hit, and a D3 for each that missed.

1 = Hits Player 1
2 = Hits Player 2
3 = Misses both

Yes its a few extra dice rolls but meh.

If you dont want to use a 3 sided die, you could always roll to hit and after hits are determined roll the number of hits and then on even numbers player 1 gets hit, and on odd numbers player 2. Again, as Gwar said, its a few extra dice rolls, but I would assume that it is the only way to determine fairly who gets hit.

Good call Gwar for a non RAW situation. I knew you could do it. Exalt brother.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:Good call Gwar for a non RAW situation. I knew you could do it. Exalt brother.

Excelsior! -wooooooooooooooooooooooosh-
I may be a stickler for the RaW, but I do know other things too

This is DAKKA!

The way I have always seen the shooting into combat situation played out (such as in a three player game) is that the shooter declares one unit as a 'target unit' and then fires. Any misses are then re-rolled as if the second unit had been the target. Any further misses are assumed to have missed the melee entirely.

And as a side note, I have seen one too many situations where a one or two figs are engaged with a mob of enemies that is ten to twenty figs strong. I find it patently ridiculous that I cant shoot into a melee when I know my unit is going to die anyway His death might as well mean something. I have always assumed that without the 'no shooting into assault' rules, then assault heavy armies would be drastically reduced in power (which means no one would play Tyranids anymore, which I would be fine with)

The one situtation that really doesnt make sense to me is: one of my models is locked in cc, and another unit cannot fire even tho their weapons arent strong enough to harm their unit.

IE Str 4 weapons firing at a dread locked in combat with an orc mob. Im not supposed to shoot to try and take out the nob with the power claw? OK, so the dread could turn its back to the firing unit.
So how about a wraithlord in cc with orcs ..... str4 shuri catapults cant harm the WL under any circumstances. It would only make sense to hose down the whole mess with as many str 4 shots as possible. Tyranids could find themselves in the same situation, and I really dont see the bugs having the slightest qualm about shooting at their own troops even if they knew some were going to die.



Sliggoth

Sliggoth wrote:The one situtation that really doesnt make sense to me is: one of my models is locked in cc, and another unit cannot fire even tho their weapons arent strong enough to harm their unit.

IE Str 4 weapons firing at a dread locked in combat with an orc mob. Im not supposed to shoot to try and take out the nob with the power claw? OK, so the dread could turn its back to the firing unit.
So how about a wraithlord in cc with orcs ..... str4 shuri catapults cant harm the WL under any circumstances. It would only make sense to hose down the whole mess with as many str 4 shots as possible. Tyranids could find themselves in the same situation, and I really dont see the bugs having the slightest qualm about shooting at their own troops even if they knew some were going to die.



Sliggoth

My poor Wraith lord i have a squad of guardian behind but they cannot help