Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey guys,

I've recently started making my Tau army, blahblahblah, and anyways. Long story short, while discussing battlesuits, the paragraph in the codex discussing the Suits themselves brought up the dispute that, as the codex says the suits need to remain stationary to fire heavy weapons, the fact that they are relentless doesn't matter. Could I get some clarifaction on that?

Also, could someone tell me where in the codex it says drones become the same unit type as their controller? I was all st to have jump-infantary Relentless sniper teams.

Well, codex overwrites rulebook, so if if says you can't move and fire heavy weapons, then you can't, even if they're Relentless. Sorry.

exactly what heavy weapon are your suits carrying? everything they have is rsapid fire or assault IIRC

I think he's talking about Broadsides.

Cheese Elemental wrote:Well, codex overwrites rulebook, so if if says you can't move and fire heavy weapons, then you can't, even if they're Relentless. Sorry.

CODEX DOES NOT override rulebook. Specific > rule book.

Models which have jetpacks are relentless.

I hate to say it, but cheese is ruight. a codex overrules the BRB. jet infantry get relentless, BUT I believe the codex says they cant move and fire heavys. its a moot point though because broadsides ARE NOT JET INFANTRY. they're regular. They can get a wargear that gives them slow and purposeful, and i would say tthe relentless part of that rule functions normally because it's granted by the codex.

I'm not. I'm talking about Crisis and Stealth, though for whatever reason I had the impression they could have smart missiles equipped, though now it applies to Marker Drones.

It's stated in a weird manner -- I'm also confused as to why GW would give Jet Packers all Relentless, but not..you know..give them all of relentless' abilities. Anyways, uhh.

Marker Drones: can they fire markerlights if they move?

the codex says that the suits may move and fire rapid fire weapons since they have the suit.

It does not say "can not fire heavy weapons".

It simply says "this does not extend to heavy weapons" and if you read the sentance before it looks like this

The battle suits are designed to compensate for the recoil of light weapons fire so they do not count as moving when they fire rapid fire weapons. This ability does not extend to heavy weapons.

Great... but once again that does not say that they CAN'T do it.

the Jet pack rule which is exclusive from the battle suit rule says they can.

its like saying models that are painted red can fire rapid fire weapons, this doesn't extend to blue models.

then saying blue models may fire rapid fire weapons.

Neither cancels the other.

Once again. Codex does not overwrite rulebook. Specific overwrites general.

The codex says battlesuits can fire rapid fire weapons as if they are stable
Core book says models with jetpacks can fire heavyweapons.

Both specific, and different rules.

Moar! wrote:I'm not. I'm talking about Crisis and Stealth, though for whatever reason I had the impression they could have smart missiles equipped, though now it applies to Marker Drones.

It's stated in a weird manner -- I'm also confused as to why GW would give Jet Packers all Relentless, but not..you know..give them all of relentless' abilities. Anyways, uhh.

Marker Drones: can they fire markerlights if they move?

A marker drone attached to a unit of jet packers takes on the jet pack unit type and has no special rules preventing it from firing heavy weapons on the move. Those marker drones are can fire markerlights if they move. Marker drones attached to infantry units can not because they are just infantry and infantry don't come with relentless.

That line from the codex only applies to Crisis Suits, and Crisis Suits can't take heavy weapons. It doesn't apply to drones attached to units of Crisis Suits or to any other units. In other words, the rule can't possibly affect anything.

Goodie.

Raxmei wrote:
A marker drone attached to a unit of jet packers takes on the jet pack unit type and has no special rules preventing it from firing heavy weapons on the move. Those marker drones are can fire markerlights if they move. Marker drones attached to infantry units can not because they are just infantry and infantry don't come with relentless.

That line from the codex only applies to Crisis Suits, and Crisis Suits can't take heavy weapons. It doesn't apply to drones attached to units of Crisis Suits or to any other units. In other words, the rule can't possibly affect anything.

This is very true.... but being technically, the XV8's and stealth armor can fire heavy weapons for the reasons I said. XV88's can not because they are not jetpacks.

Jetpack stealth suit team leaders may have and use markerlights (which are heavy weapons) on the move

frgsinwntr wrote:Jetpack stealth suit team leaders may have and use markerlights (which are heavy weapons) on the move

And if you look in the Tau codex, the description of Stealth Armor does not include the line "This ability does not extend to heavy weapons...." That rule is only attached to Crisis Suits, who really can't have heavy weapons anyway. Stealth suits don't have that rule so of course it doesn't apply to them.

hehe you're missing my point that doesn't matter : )

It never says that the crisis suits can't fire heavy weapons.

It's moot since they can't have heavy weapons, but the rules previously quoted said the rules for tau suits said "they can't fire heavy weapons"

I pointed out that it simply says they can fire rapid fire... but the fact they can fire rapid fire doesn't affect heavy weapons.

The reason they can fire heavy (EVEN THOUGH) they can't buy the weapons, is that they have jetpacks and no single rule saying they can't fire heavy weapons on the move.

frgsinwntr is incorrect. Tau Suits specifically state that the ability does not apply to heavy weapons. Specific > General

agreed but it's a moot point. to recap:

crisis suits: would expect to due to jetpack but can't move and fire heavies due to specific codex exclusion, only rapid fire and assault weapons. not a problem since they can't take a single heavy weapon.

stealth suits: no exclusion as in crisis suits, get relentless due to jet pack type. can only take a single heavy weapon (markerlight) for one squad member, shas'ui upgrade

broadsides: not jetpackers, no standard relentless rule for either heavy or rapidfire weapons. can UPGRADE with ASS (huh, that's a nice acronym) for extra points to gain slow and purposeful which in turn gives relentless.

Warboss is spot on...

Crisis/Stealth Suits can move and shoot as though they haven't moved (meaning full range) - except when they fire a heavy weapon (markerlights, which really doean't apply because stealthsuits can fire them on the move) - because they have jet packs

Broadsides do not have jet packs and must purchase advanced stabilizers to be able to move and shoot

So i guess that was a recap of a recap

Stealth Suit teams can take a marker light (aka the mystery heavy weapon people say suits don't have) which they can not fire on the move as the codex says
but the marker light is the Stealth Suits only heavy weapon

see my above post as to why stealth suit CAN fire and move using markerlights.

warboss wrote:see my above post as to why stealth suit CAN fire and move using markerlights.

Your post makes no sense. The Tau Codex specifically prohibits moving and firing heavy weapons, even if they are relentless. Specific > General.

Gwar! wrote:

warboss wrote:see my above post as to why stealth suit CAN fire and move using markerlights.

Your post makes no sense. The Tau Codex specifically prohibits moving and firing heavy weapons, even if they are relentless. Specific > General.

for someone who spouts RAW like you do, i'm suprised you apparently haven't read the tau codex before making such a broad and utterly wrong statement.

tau pg. 27

"Stealth Armor: ... are jump infantry subject to jetpack rules"

tau Pg. 27

"XV8 Crisis Battlesuit: ... are jump infantry subject to jetpack rules... the battlesuits are designed to compensate for light weapons fire recoil, so they do not count as moving when firing rapid fire weapons. this ability does not extend to heavy weapons"

BBB pg. 52

"Models with jet packs have the relentless special rule"

NO WHERE under the stealth armor does it say they are subject to the same limitations as crisis suits unless you are saying we should take a rule that appears under a separate heading for a different unit and apply it by proximity to the one above. that doesn't sound like RAW but how you would play it; this is a RAW thread.

so to recap again for those unclear on RAW, XV8 crisis suits cannot move and fire heavy weapons due to specific>general rules. Stealth armor can. broadsides can if you buy the upgrade. Gwar, if you have some other source of RAW for your assertion, i'd be interested in seeing it.

Well, excuse me for not reading a crappy codex. If stealth Suits like you say do not have this restriction, then they can. I was under the impression they had the same rules as the XV8 Suits.

can you rephrase that so i can sig it?

warboss wrote:NO WHERE under the stealth armor does it say they are subject to the same limitations as crisis suits unless you are saying we should take a rule that appears under a separate heading for a different unit and apply it by proximity to the one above. that doesn't sound like RAW but how you would play it; this is a RAW thread.