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So, the Marbo discussion on YMDC got me to log in again, because... Well, I had to add an authoritative 2cents.

Now I'm asking for a little advise. I would like make a competative guard army with one restriction, NO ARMOR.
No tanks at all. What does that look like at 1k 1.5 1.75 and 2k?

Here's my thoughts after attempting a Straken list with very poor results.
So, I guess this is V2.1 I'm building it off of a 2k list and thinking that I'll scale it down for lesser battles.

HQ:
CCS w/ OoF, 2x BodyGuards, AC, camo 140
CCS w/ 2x BodtGuards, AC, Camo 110

Elite:
Marbo 65
10x Storm troopers w/ 2x meltas 185
10x Storm troopers w/ 2x meltas 185

Troops:
PCS w/ Commisar, 4x flammers, Krak 90
3x Infantry Squads w/ Comi, 4x PWs, 3x ACs, 3x melta bombs 270 (intended to combine)
2x Infantry Squads w/ Comi, 3x PWs, 2x GL, 2x Melta Bombs 185 (intended to combine)
AC team 75 x4

Penal Legionares 80
Penal Legionares 80
Penal Legionares 80
Demo Vets w/ PF 115
Demo Vets w/ PF 115

So the thought is, the Auto cannons and the 30 squad hold back while taking orders from the CCS s. Their objective it to take out all the enemy transports that aren't Land raiders. The 20man advances while shielding the vets and the PCS. Penal Legions outflank to capture, and the Sts s Deep strike to tie up Space marines or heavy armor.

Why take bodyguards on those CCS? maybe one, to prevent a single bad shot from wasting the Commander, but two seem superfluous.

Those stormtrooper squads are at least five men too big.

If you're running Power weapon blob squads, why wouldn't you go with straken or Creed? I'm not wild about them, but this is where they're best.

Do you really need three Penal squads? dropping one is a full extra PCS with flamers.

Strongly consider a few voxes for blog squads, and standards. Even with stubborn and LD9, 15pts is a cheap re-roll, esp when not giving up a melta gun.

If you're going to use only infantry, you need as many men as possible on the field: Drop expensive bodyguards on the command squads (camo is probably a good choice though) and drop the stormtroopers down to 5 men - I appreciate you need close-range meltaguns for taking out really hard tanks, but then you shouldn't waste 160 points bulking out the stormtrooper squads, since you're paying points for anti-marine guns when you should be concentrating solely on taking out the hard tanks your footsloggers will struggle with.

As long as you screen them with platoons, I think SWSs are better than vets for delivering demo charges. (75 points for 6 men with two charges, 95 points for going nuts with three)

Marbo and penal legionarres are exciting choices, if they work for you go for it, I'd prefer more platoons but that's just my opinion.

Your 100% T3 list has 168 men by my count, I'm sure you could stretch it to 200 by dropping extra stormtroopers and expensive vets, bodyguards, maybe cutting one penal legion squad, and adding in another platoon.

Also, the commisar on the PCS seems pretty redundant. Shouldn't those guys be behind their squads, protected from close combat, waiting to flame people?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, basically I also support everything Polonius said that I didn't reiterate already, especially the voxes

What I would do for a pure footslogger list, is put Straken in the middle of a couple platoons with 5 squads of regular infantry, and give the sergeants power weapons, sprinkle in commissars and priests for extra boosts. This would give you a pretty solid core to work around, and for anti-tank you could give straken's team 4 meltaguns, and add in a few heavy weapon platoons of autocannons, lascannons, and missile launchers.

If you place them right, you should be able to get all your sarges with pw's into a charge... can you imagine S4 power attacks for 10 sergeants at +1 initiative? That'll wreck a MEQ's player's day. Plus, straken himself is a CC monster for a relatively cheap cost. If you want to shoot with them, then you're still spitting out an obscene amount of lasfire as well.

Ok I don't know for sure if you can base a foot-slogging army off of that but I sure wouldn't mind trying. Adding Marbo and snipers, stormtroopers, etc would make this list have a shot of standing a chance ....

Let's see.

Several comments about the Body guards. Upon closer inspection, I see this too. If the CCS is getting shot at and I need to assign more than the 14 wounds that it will take to put 1 wound on the commander then the squad is dead anyway. No more than 1 body guard is needed ever.

Several comments about the Storm troopers being too large. Initially the thought was that they would go for heavy armor infantry (edited for clarity) if there was no tanks to hit. I agree though, those point could be spent better elsewhere.

The PWs in the blob squads are not to straight up kill the opponent. They give me a chance to win protracted combat rather than die slowly.

No, I do not need three penal squads, and again I'm sure that I can find better use for those points too.

The thing about the Vets is not the demo charge. It's the 10 melta bombs. It's my Land raider counter charge. The Vets are set to take out forward heavy armor, Dreads and Landraiders and such, the Storm troopers take out the tanks that hold back. Sadly I can not do this with SWS.

Also true about the Commissar in the PCS, a waste of points, if they fall back, well that's it.

So, 160+35+30+80 is 305 plenty of points to add Voxes and add Meltas on the Vets (dedicate to purpose) and pick-up a few bodies.

Any further thought or comments?

Infantry squads:

1) You want line-breaker front-line blob squads. These should have a couple power weapons, flamers and perhaps some cheap autocannon/h.bolters aswell as a commissar. Voxes to be included if you run with creed. If you run with creed then also add in one preist per squad; then this squad becomes extremely powerful.

2) You also want second line shooty blob squads, these should have lascannons voxes and grenade launchers aswell as a vox for twin-linked lascannons.

3) Some more shooty cheap heavy weapon teams. Dont get too many as you cripple yourself in the foot with KP's. Autocannon are best suited as they can outrange most things.

4) Some form of mobile melta/heavy armor penetration. (when talking in foot-troop terms, 5man storm troopers with dual melta are the best bet.. or rending penals are also pretty good in close combat against AV10)

5) And finally proper supporting CCS. Needs one regimental standard, one vox and a lascannon team. Definetly get an Officer of the fleet to help delay/prevent massive alpha-strikes of deep-striking template action as this could well vaporise many many men instantly.

Optional 6) Gunnery sgt harker. A properly equipped veteran team with triple melta/plasma and an autocannon/h.bolter respectively with a demo-charge as a secondary extra. If you field (atleast one squad of) maxed stormtroppers then field these guys with plasma and the veterans with melta as two infiltrating double tapping plasmaguns and 7 double tapping pinning hot-shot lasguns is a healthy amount of anti-heavy troop.

On commissars in PCS's... I would never stick a commissar in a position where he would execute an order-issuing officer. Putting commissars in command squads of any kind just sounds like a bad idea.

I did a little playtesting of the "Big angry mob with powerweapons" technique... and I have a few words to say about it. First, it takes careful deployment. If you are lucky enough to get spearhead, than make sure you stuff them as far near the center of the table as you can, so it doesn't take 3 turns of just running to make it to combat. Secondly, adding meltabombs to the sergeants can be a little spendy at 25 points, but it makes this giant squad fairly dangerous to vehicles as well as infantry. It gives you an opportunity to Death or Glory vehicles, so they don't just herd you off the map with tank shocking. Lastly, these kinds of squads are really only useful when in conjunction with Straken and his command squad. The Furious Charge and Counter-attack rules make them slightly more effective... I was able to go toe-to-toe with SM Tactical squads easily enough. Against any truly dedicated Assault squads though... that was more atrocious and relied on superior numbers to carry the day.

Vets with demo charges.... definitely. When I take veterans, if I have to choose one doctrine, it will be Demolitions every time. It makes a 100 point unit that can maul vehicles. as many as 9 meltabomb attacks on a vehicle? It is going to die, without a doubt.

Voxes.... normally I would say they're not neccessary but in this kind of list, you are likely to be using orders more so I would say go for it.

Heya, the other day I was on a break from class and I wrote up a 2k point list for IG footsloggers using only normal troops. Love it, hate it, take a look. I'd like to see if it has any value.

HQ: 175

CCS: 95
CC W/ P Sword and Plasma Pistol
x3 Vet GL or FT or SR
Vox
Meltabombs

Lord Commissar: 80
Power Sword
(Mostly to camp Heavy Weapons teams with Lead bubble)

Troops: 1825 Total

1st Platoon: 400

PCS: 70
Melta x3
Vox
Meltabombs

Infantry Squad x1: 70
Melta
Vox
Serg w/ Bombs

Infantry x4: 65 (260 total)
Melta
Serg w/ Bombs

Second Platoon: 400 points

PCS: 70
Same as 1st Platoon

Infantry x1: 70
Melta
Vox
Serg w/ Bombs

Infantry x4: 65 (260)
Melta
Serg w/ Bombs

3rd Platoon: 615 Points

PCS: 35
Vox
Infantry Squad: 55
FT or GL or SR
Infantry Squad: 60
Heavy Bolter of Autocannon

x3 Heavy Weapon Squad: 105 (315)
Lascannon
x2 Heavy Weapon Squad: 75 (150)
Heavy Bolter or Autocannon

(The Lord Commissar will park with these squads to pass his high LD to them, making them more likely to stick around. Infantry squads will hang back to defend these Heavy's)

4th Platoon: 410 Points (Anti Mech)

PCS: 80
x3 Plasma
Vox
Infantry Squad x1: 70
Plasma
Vox
Infantry Squad x4: 65 (260)
Plasma

Anyways, here it is. This list features ~225 guardsmen including the PCS's and CCS. I based this list heavily on anti-armor figuring 200 lasgun shots a turn should eventually take its effect on even the most resilient troops. Even so, 4th platoon and the CCS have the Plasma to burn down MEQs. The Lord Commissar is only in this list to camp the Hvy Weapon squads and give them his LD 10 so orders for Twin-Linked Lascannons are very likely to pass. Looking this over, I suppose the platoon command squads could be shaved down in points and just include 3x flamer to clear out hordes but this was just a brainstorm. I hope it helps.