Explain the Manticore

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**CKO**

Will someone explain why the manticore is good?

Ap4 means meqs get their saves, if you roll 1 or 2 you should of just use another artillery piece with better ap, its to expensive to be considered a good anti-tank weapon, and you can only use it for 4 turns.

**Flavius Infernus**

It's about the strength and the D3 blasts, not the AP.

More blasts means a very high probability of getting the hole over a heavily-armored target like a land raider after the scatter (which gives the shot a 75% chance of glancing or penetrating an AR14 vechicle because of the two dice). The limited ammunition is offset by the fact that you only need one or two shots to kill most tanks, then can drive around and contest objectives if it's still alive.

It's arguably the most effective long-range AT gun in the list.

**CKO**

160 points for a tank hunter, I am sorry this thing is only good on paper its like the air cav list. If I am paying that many points it needs to have av 14.

**Jackmojo**

It completely owns biker nobz, that's certainly something to be happy about. Its good against lots of targets, just not optimized versus MEQ.

As for Marines, I'd expect marines to be in cover or in transports, so you're trading roughly double the firepower of a Basilisk in exchange for letting them make 33% more saves (3+ v 4+) and it only costs about 25 points more.

Jack

**Uriels_Flame**

Agreed. It only has the 4 shots, but it plays more in line with the turns. And if it survives, it can run around the board.

**whitedragon**

CKO wrote:160 points for a tank hunter, I am sorry this thing is only good on paper its like the air cav list. If I am paying that many points it needs to have av 14.

Except it's actually good. Did you not read what everyone else has posted?

**Grimaldi**

The key is that it's pretty effective against most targets. Good chance to hurt armor, considering it's str 10, ord and hits side armor if fired indirectly. Obviously, it will completely destroy any horde type unit (orks, nids, guard blobs).

Even against MEQs or TH/SS termies it's not bad. Should force plenty of wounds on MEQs...enough to get a chance to kill key models off. Against TH/SS guys, the key seems to be forcing lots of wounds, and multiple str 10 blasts will do it.

The str 10 ignores most units' FNP and threatens most characters with insta-death.

Sure, the fact that it's AV12 isn't as nice as AV14, but you have options there, too. AV12 is cheaper, so you can have a horde of AV12 stuff, or throw a few AV 14 models into the other 1-2 heavy slots you have. All in all, the manticore is a hell of a unit.

**Uriels_Flame**

I put it right up/next to the Hydra Flak.

**freddieyu1**

I use it a lot, and the 4 turns is more than enough to destroy thing(s) that it needs to destroy....the potential for multiple blast templates will punish units deployed/stacked together...

Besides, the manticore is just 1 HS slot....I will tend to use a bassie for the other slot for ap3 goodness, and marbo is there for big pie plates for nasty 2+ models (termies)....

The only weakness I have encountered is facing off versus wave serpents, as the s10 and ordnance bonus in killing vehicles is negated (it works versus falcons though), but any disembarked eldar unit is really toast (maybe except wraithguard and pathfinders in cover)....

**CKO**

Im not saying the thing is bad, its just that for the points you spend you can buy alot of things that can do the same thing. The battlecannon is just as good against nob bikers, I like the ap over high volume shots.

**Warboss Gutrip**

Manticores suck. Min range; 24". Biker Nobz will be in that in 1 turn.

**freddieyu1**

Min range of 24" is for indirect only, you can fire directly with no minimum range...

@CKO.....well, the battlecannon cannot fire d3 pie plates.....what makes the manticore deadly is it's ability to fire up to 3 s10 ordnance pie plates, which is enough to instakill nobz warbosses....and as you know that 2 point boost over s8 is a BIG factor when it comes to long range tank busting.....

What makes the manticore good is it's flexibility vs infantry and armor...say comparing versus a medusa w/ bastion breacher or even a standard russ.....and it's ability to shoot indirect and directly.....

Then again, I say the manticore (this applies to other artillery vehicles as well) work best when there are a lot of other vehicles around....if not it is an instant target and will not last long.....

**SlaveToDorkness**

CKO wrote:Im not saying the thing is bad, its just that for the points you spend you can buy alot of things that can do the same thing. The battlecannon is just as good against nob bikers, I like the ap over high volume shots.

So... it is the same S/AP -wise but with d3 shots so it's ...bad?

**Regwon**

CKO wrote:Im not saying the thing is bad, its just that for the points you spend you can buy alot of things that can do the same thing. The battlecannon is just as good against nob bikers, I like the ap over high volume shots.

This is your mistake right here. In 5th everything usually has some sort of cover save, so low AP weapons arent as good as high shot weapons. Against marines in cover my d3 S10 AP4 templates beat your singel S8 AP3 one. Its also better against terminators, hordes, MCs and vehicles. So basically a manticore is better at killing everything than a leman russ.

**Razerous**

Use the manticore as the everything backfield all-rounder & use more specialised & more heavily armored LR tanks like the eradicator and the executioner to deal with pathfinders/lurking gaunts and TEQ/MEQ's.

Personally I'll probably field the Medusa with bastion breachers every time not because its more kill (its not, its wound threshold is waaay lower aswell as its Anti-armor hits threshold) but it is by far the best weapon to take out a monolith...

...Although I could be horribly wrong here, assuming atleast two blasts does the second extra orderance roll (2d6 (unlike the medusa BB's) pick the highest) offset the improved damage afforded by the AP1?

**freddieyu1**

more hits = more chances to roll on the damage table = more chances to kill the monolith....assuming you roll more than 1 shot, i would say yes the manticore has a better chance, especially since the monolith is so large so firing direct, or indirect with LOS, you can still roll a moderate number on the scatter dice and still hit the thing....

**Jackmojo**

The Manticoire is brilliant, definitely the best Artillery choice for the IG.

It has only one flaw...not being able to be taken in squadrons!

Jack

**JD21290**

160 points for a tank hunter, I am sorry this thing is only good on paper its like the air cav list. If I am paying that many points it needs to have av 14.

Sorry, but i have to laugh at this bit.
You expect an AV tank hunting vehicle for 160 points!?
Land raiders and liths both teeter around the 250 mark for AV14 tank hunters, so you have no chance really.

The manticore is amazing, multiple blasts mean you have a nice area coverage, high strength means alot of dead models / vehicles.
due to cover being a big thing now Strength is alot better than AP.
AP2 against someone in cover? means nothing.
A high strength weapon capable of instant death and will pretty much allways wound, where do i sign?

**freddieyu1**

With the manticore and other IF weapons, if the target is in LOS and more than the minimum range, you can still fire indirect and get to subtract the BS of 3 from the scatter dice...this has the advantage of removing the cover save of the target....for me this is the true advantage of artillery since with TLOS you can practically see everything, and as long as you do not move and the target is beyond the minimum range, you can sit back and take advantage of cover saves, while shooting indirect at a target in LOS and removing his cover saves as well as hitting side armor (if the target is a vehicle), unless he also has artillery to counter battery you...

**kaiservonhugal**

How are the multiple blast templates placed? touching each other or stacked on top?

**PhantomViper**

kaiservonhugal wrote:How are the multiple blast templates placed? touching each other or stacked on top?

When firing directly, place each template individually as you wan't then roll for scatter for each one.

When firing barrage, place one template, roll for scatter then roll scatter for the other templates, if you get an arrow the template is placed touching the first in the direction that the arrow points, if you get a hit you can place it anyway you wan't as long as its touching (or overlapping), a previously placed template.