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Now, before I get flamed, I did search - but all I saw was a few back-and-forth conversations that didn't really cover my question. So, here goes:

Can an independant character, who is relentless and who has joined a non-relentless unit, fire his heavy weapon and still assault with the unit? I guess my question is, can the unit still assault?

Disallowed assaults say:

"Units are not allowed to assault if:

"They shot rapid fire weapons or heavy weapons in the Shooting phase." pg. 33

Relentless says:

"A relentless independant character must still abide by the assaulting limitations of any unit it has joined, if the unit is not itself relentless." pg. 76

Now, RAW says that the unit cannot assault if THEY fired rapid or heavy weapons in the shooting phase.

Does the independant character count as THEY?

If so, the relentless USR doesn't allow the unit to assault because "they" fired a heavy weapon, despite the IC being relentless.

Am I reading this right?

I would say that the unit can assault, assuming the other shooter uses assault weapons. The IC in this case would not loose relentless, and nor does the unit gain it. If however one of the other unit members shot a RF or heavy, then they could not assault.

psf3077 wrote:I would say that the unit can assault, assuming the other shooter uses assault weapons. The IC in this case would not loose relentless, and nor does the unit gain it. If however one of the other unit members shot a RF or heavy, then they could not assault.

Right, but the "unit" shot a heavy weapon, right? He's a part of the unit, so the "unit" shot a heavy weapon. That means that, regardless of his relentless rule, the "unit" cannot assault. Even a more specific example: Gunnery Sergeant Harker. He's not even an IC, but he's got Relentless and he's got a heavy bolter. If he fires his heavy bolter, can his unit assault in the same turn?

As you said, Harker is not an IC, so it is not an issue in his case.

As for some other hypothetical instance (which I can't seem to come up with right now) the unit referred to by p.76 is obviously a separate entity from the IC. Thus we know that "unit" can be replaced with "unit he has joined" in this instance. As "unit he has joined" is more specific than "unit" and specific>general, we can see the problem is resolved.

Kitzz wrote:As you said, Harker is not an IC, so it is not an issue in his case.

As for some other hypothetical instance (which I can't seem to come up with right now) the unit referred to by p.76 is obviously a separate entity from the IC. Thus we know that "unit" can be replaced with "unit he has joined" in this instance. As "unit he has joined" is more specific than "unit" and specific>general, we can see the problem is resolved.

But Harker's unit is out of luck?

Harker is not an IC, so his assaults are not forced to "abide by the assaulting limitations" of the unit. He can swing away without worry.

Kitzz wrote:Harker is not an IC, so his assaults are not forced to "abide by the assaulting limitations" of the unit. He can swing away without worry.

Right, but Harker has Relentless, no one else. Harker fires his heavy bolter. Therefore, the unit did, in fact, fire a heavy weapon. Therefore, the unit cannot assault because they don't all have relentless, no?

No that's totally wrong. If Harker fires his Heavy Bolter it only counts as if he fired it. So if the rest of the
unit have not fired any weapons that restrict assaulting, Rapid Fire, Heavy Weapon, they may assault.

Otherwise giving him Relentless would have been silly

//Edge

Harker is part of the unit, once he fires that weapon the unit counts as having fired such.
Meaning since they do not have the relentless rule they cannot assault.

JD21290 wrote:Harker is part of the unit, once he fires that weapon the unit counts as having fired such.
Meaning since they do not have the relentless rule they cannot assault.

I am going to say that, once again, GW cannot write rules for gak.
It can swing either way, the RaW is that muddy. However, How I would play it (if only to avoid the whining) is that Harker/anyone gets to fire their Heavies just fine and then can assault so long as the non relentless members fire Assault Weapons only.

I agree RAW is fuzzy, but If I ran into this situation I would play it that the unit cannot assault if any member of the unit has fired a heavy weapon.

this does not stop the IC from leaving the unit at the start of the turn, shooting, then both units assaulting, so you can get around it if you try.

Also, relentless still gives you a benefit while in the unit because the IC can still fire on the move, regardless of the units' ability to fire heavy weapons.