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Well I'm coming over from 40k (I play space marines ), and I was wondering if spears are really worth it for night goblins as opposed to hand weapons?

If you're playing an Orc/Gobbo army, Night Goblins are primarily for releasing Fanatics into the field. The extra point for spears is not necessarily worth it in that case, as Netters are usually enough to secure you a few hits back in most cases.

Get a good idea of how combat resolution works, because although weak little goblins aren't going to do a great deal of combat damage either way, a block of 25-30 is going to give you a basic combat resolution of 4 to 5 before causing any wounds (Standard, 2 to 3 Ranks, Outnumbering), making them great for absorbing fast cavalry charges most of the time. At the same time, don't sink too many points into them because they're not game winners without serious backup, and are very likely to run at the sight of their first panic check. Hopefully you'll be within 8" by then and they'll have already tossed their fanatics. For a dedicated cavalry blocker the spears might be a little more worth it, but in general I wouldn't pay for them more than once or twice.

Bows aren't bad because in addition to making your enemy charge you through fanatics, you'll get a stand-and-shoot reaction, helping you to secure your outnumbering bonus.

Very sound advice from Arctik Firangi. Spears are okay to let you get back a few hits in HtH, but against anything remotely serious, you won't get many kills. The Goblins need that static CR of 4-5. Releasing the fanatics and being a speed bump for your better units is their whole role.

so what your saying is that I should use 1 or 2 big units of 5 x 5 or 6 ranks hand weapon and shield (with netters) night goblins as the center of my line, with a block of 5 x 4 or 5 night goblins with spears on the flanks of them line and a unit of night goblins with bows on the flanks of those. with a 1-3 fanatics in each unit.

yea I wasn't planning on using night goblins as my damage dealing units, I'm going to put my lord (skarsnik ) in one of the center units of goblins to maximize his prodder and give the units around him ldr 8, and stick my bsb with the raggedy red banner in the unit with him (so my goblins can have ldr 8 rerolls). As for damage dealers I'm going to use squig hoppers and probably a doom diver or some spear chuckas.

Does this sound like a good idea?

thanks

Well, on a sporstmanship note 3 fanatics per unit for every unit won't win you a lot of friends. It might be OK at a Hard boyz Tourney, but where I'm from, it's overkill. That's me and where I've played. 2 is more of the accepted norm. Plus with the points saved you can field a chariot. Then again, everywhere is different.

Chukkas -Yes. Hoppers are in my opinon better than the Squig herd. Doom Divers are great. Are you going all Gobbo or are you throughing in some Orcs for good measure and toughness?

lol I didn't mean 3 in every unit as that would be expensive (point and money wise) and would make people not want to play against me (like you said). I plan on going all night gobbos with goblin heros for support..... and possibly a giant.

There's nothing wrong with 3 Fanatics/NG unit, not in a regular O&G army and certainly not in an all Gobbo army (with its serious Ld issues).

But like the OP said it's very expensive pointswise and therefore generally not worth it to go this path. More cheap blocks usually get you better results than 3 Fanatics in each NG unit.

Personally I don't care how many Fanatics an O&G player brings. An opponent should anticipate for this and even in an open game or tourney list environment people should have stuff in their army for baiting and re-directing which is preferably also expendable.

My Empire army always has multiple 5 man detachments for this kind of thing. Versus O&G these march as fast as possible to those NG blocks and watch the hilarity that ensues, well they don't actually watch as they're very likely dead but the rest of the army finds the Fanatics that mill around in the middle of the O&G line very funny.

I'm running all NGs with great success at the moment (came third at my last tourney.

I never have more than 2 fanatics per unit.

I run 2 units short bows 1st choice with 2 fanatics each, one goes in the middle with the main line of NG units and one sits on the flank 15-20 wide and shoots and wheels. No oenemy is game to come near it thanks to the shooting and the threat of fanantics and usually they only struggle when animosity hits in later game.

Spears.... I still don't think that they are worth 1 point extra each. However they end up performing pretty similar to HW shields after you do combat res. to be honest a 5+ save is pretty rubbish vs most enemies these days. There just aren't enough st 3 enemies to make it super great.

Shooting can definately protect against early Fanatic release, those 5 man Detachments of mine don't last long vs missile fire (no AS Free Company usually), and otherwise the Panic test has a good chance of seeing them run.

Luckily for me I mostly play vs O&G players whose only shooting tends to come in the form of warmachines.

Unless you have fanatic release units running next to your general's unit, I'd not take fewer than 30 NGs per unit.
At the next tourney I'm going to I've got 2 archers of 30 (plus muso), 2 HW shields with 30 (full command) and 1 spears of 28 with full command.

Go the larger number to save uneccesary panic tests in the early game.

Oh, the Panic comment wasn't about the NG, it was about my Detachments being shot at, 2 casualties and it's Ld7 check time! Luckily at 5 big those disposable detachments are only unable to rally when they're down to their last man.

Large blocks and staying close to the general are always good tactics for low/average Ld armies but most Gobbo lists have such friggin huge armies that you simply cannot deploy all of them in the General's Ld bubble.

Just a few battles ago I taught an O&G general why this is a bad idea, a flank shot Burning Head made a whole flank run of the board.

alright so I doubt i'll use more than one NG unit with spears. But I do have one more question..... are snotling pump wagons any good?


thanks

Be careful with the Fanatic Army: A lone engine of the gods will negate your entire advantage (oh hi, all Fanatics dropping dead!).

Spears can be alright at times, but for the most part they are worthless (to compare against Empire Swordsmen, who really aren't that tough: 8 Spear Goblins = one dead Swordsman. A swordsman is less than 32pts a model). Usually, you want your goblins for one of three things (at least, I do):
1) Releasing Fanatics. Anything extra they do is bonus. Bows are fine on these units, as they might get off a round of shooting or two, and they are a free upgrade.
2) Giving a character an easy +3 Strength & +3 Attacks for the Battleaxe of the Last Waaagh! Pretty much says itself: Stuff a character in there, enjoy as you make use of a static 5 combat-res as well as 7-8 S8 attacks a turn from a hero for combat-res purposes. However, if going this route, one also should consider...
3) Making the unit a casualty-sink. This unit holds up things. A long time. You take a hand-weapon & shield combo, as well as nets. On average, a S4 unit attacking these Goblins is going to need 9 attacks to cause two kills. A S3 unit will need 13-14 attacks to drop two models. When you combine this with any sort of character who can reliably provide at least 1-2 combat res points a turn (doesn't need to be a #2: A big boss with a Great Weapon / martog's basha works fine), and you keep it within range of a BSB / your general, this unit is never going away. Best part? 200pts snags you the cheap big-boss, 40 Night Goblins, nets, a standard and a musician. Drop 10 models in a pinch and you can save 30pts while still having a decent "tie up [x] unit" block.

Never expect goblins to kill stuff on their own: All of that is extra. When you tool them right though, they can be hell for an opponent to wade through.

Kra_Z wrote:alright so I doubt i'll use more than one NG unit with spears. But I do have one more question..... are snotling pump wagons any good?

I am trying to figure this out myself. Depends on the scenario, really: Do you think the enemy is going to do something such as have Wolfrik pop up behind your lines? 80pts leaves you with two chariots that can each potentially cause 12 S4 hits on his unit, greatly reducing their threat capability. However, some areas Trolls and Giants are just superior (Bretonians, Ogres, cavalry-heavy lists...)

I think I already know the answer to this question but are NG champs worth their points... ever?

Yes.

If you keep an NG Shaman in the unit, the Champ can accept challenges.

The advantage of a Night Goblin champion is that they're cheap, and as Cryonicleech said can take a challenge you don't want someone else to face. They rarely made things any easier to kill (my eight spearmen example to kill one swordsman? It's now only seven spearmen!), but in return all you're losing when / if it dies is an 11pt model. If you can use said 11pt model to force a Bloodthirster to miss all his attacks on the unit, good for you.

Lol I just saw the overkill rule and wrote the champion off as a cr liability. I forgot that every wound caused by what ever he's challenged could of be a potentially dead goblin if I didn't take him.